I hope there's a working Linux version before the end of the school year
Computer Science Canada Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
| Author: | BigBear [ Fri May 01, 2009 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
http://www.holtsoft.com/ Holtsoft.com is back I was just testing Sys.Exec and what do you know. Nothing on the website is new they posted the free downloads and edited the wiki page that the source will be posted publically but shortly after the website went down and compsci started hosting the different versions. |
|
| Author: | DtY [ Fri May 01, 2009 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
I hope there's a working Linux version before the end of the school year |
|
| Author: | Dan [ Fri May 01, 2009 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
My understand from talking with Dr. holt threw e-mail was the source would not be reaslied as the code is in bad shape and as they are out of business they have no one to clean it up. I have also asked about a linux version in the past. There is one but is very out of date and never ment for public use. It also dose not have an IDE. You can run turing on linux threw wine or use an emulator/virutal mashen of some kind. |
|
| Author: | DtY [ Fri May 01, 2009 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
Dan @ Fri May 01, 2009 7:31 pm wrote: My understand from talking with Dr. holt threw e-mail was the source would not be reaslied as the code is in bad shape and as they are out of business they have no one to clean it up.
I have also asked about a linux version in the past. There is one but is very out of date and never ment for public use. It also dose not have an IDE. You can run turing on linux threw wine or use an emulator/virutal mashen of some kind. People keep saying it runs fine on wine, so I don't know if they have lower standards than me, or there's just something different about my computer because there are so many little problems that add up into it being rather unusable. First of all the speed (which others have reported), letters in text get cut off, programs take five minutes to compile, then runs the old version of it, etc. |
|
| Author: | BigBear [ Fri May 01, 2009 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
Well unless the code is all over the place (different files/folders) why would they need someone to clean it up even then are they worried about reputation they have abandoned Turing so how much do they really care to post it? |
|
| Author: | tjmoore1993 [ Fri May 01, 2009 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
Turing isn't worth the time and effort it would take to fix up the source. Turing is an easy language and it would be pointless to fix it up. Turing is not as important anymore as we come across languages like C++, Python, Ruby, Java, and much more which provide more! |
|
| Author: | Insectoid [ Fri May 01, 2009 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
Quote: Turing is an easy language That is the worst reason to not like a language. At least give a decent argument. it's the funcionality that needs work |
|
| Author: | DtY [ Fri May 01, 2009 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
I think it's a wonderful language except for speed and compatibility. Being easy is wonderful, it does everything I usually need in the programs I write. |
|
| Author: | saltpro15 [ Fri May 01, 2009 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
Quote: People keep saying it runs fine on wine, so I don't know if they have lower standards than me, or there's just something different about my computer because there are so many little problems that add up into it being rather unusable. First of all the speed (which others have reported), letters in text get cut off, programs take five minutes to compile, then runs the old version of it, etc. |
|
| Author: | Insectoid [ Fri May 01, 2009 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
I have no issues running on crossover, so I can't help |
|
| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sat May 02, 2009 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
I had the text glitch. Go to File -> Preferences -> Run Window and click Change Font. The font I use is Lucida Sans, which runs fine, but you can choose whatever you want. This solved my text glitch. As for compiling, I find Turing is very slow with that on Windows and Wine. |
|
| Author: | btiffin [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
insectoid @ Fri May 01, 2009 8:42 pm wrote: Quote: Turing is an easy language That is the worst reason to not like a language. At least give a decent argument. it's the funcionality that needs work old guy ramble I've never had any reason to use Turing. I fear that Ontario is decreasing overall, "as a group", compsci expertise. When teaching a language that some people like, build some pretty cool projects with and then ... management at the first job could care less, we are not getting the best bang per educational hour. 10,000 hours is a lot of hours to build expertise. Why not give the odd course using a system that has some legs in the commercial arenas while still providing foundational computer science? 10,000 hours of "programming" doesn't mean you'll be as good at debugging Perl as a developer with 10,000 hours of Perl programming. Google may hire the best and the brightest, and it's important to get a good foundation in the concepts, but Turing isn't going to help you keep up with the Python gurus at Google HQ. Turing the language might be good, but the thousands of hours spent by students writing Turing, not so good. In my, learn assembler first, crusty, old fart opinion. Cheers |
|
| Author: | tjmoore1993 [ Sat May 02, 2009 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
Correct me if I am wrong. Turing was made simple but behind that is a complexed core. If you think it would be easy to manage it I would assume you'd be wrong. None of us actually seen the source or even has an idea on how it was made. To be honest I don't mind if they are out of business they had a good run and it is still being tought to students in Ontario. Right now though I just say leave it. Also if Turing was continued there would be some problems. I am assuming that people in this forum are here to learn programming. If that is the case why do you want to fix up Turing. It will throw off peoples habits and by the time they upgrade to C++, Java, and others they will be lost because they learned how to do things Turing style. That is my statement. @ Anyone? I do like the language, I like how it was written and it runs great. I just don't like the idea of it being continued because it would be pointless. |
|
| Author: | Dan [ Sat May 02, 2009 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
tjmoore1993 @ 2nd May 2009, 9:38 am wrote: Correct me if I am wrong. Turing was made simple but behind that is a complexed core. If you think it would be easy to manage it I would assume you'd be wrong. None of us actually seen the source or even has an idea on how it was made.
Well tom west does have a user account here and i have had some luck decoming parts of turing thanks to dome debuging info that was left in turing for VC++. Also serveral users here are at the university level and have some expericen with compliers and interperters. So if the code was realsed i think it might be posible to work on it but i would rather make a new lang that is backwords comtable with turing. |
|
| Author: | BigBear [ Sat May 02, 2009 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
Hey Dan were you apart of OpenT? |
|
| Author: | DemonWasp [ Sat May 02, 2009 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
Concur with Dan; Turing as-is is a pretty weak language. It comes so close to a few key aspects of higher-level languages without actually implementing them that it's a little painful. You can see some of my previous musing about what should be done to make Turing awesome here, though my opinions may have changed a bit. As far as I can see, Turing is a combination of C's low-level nonsense (if you take code written for Turing 3.x that doesn't use the Pic, Draw, Sprite or similar modules, you could probably just add a few #define's at the top and get it to compile and run as a C program). That's not particularly helpful for most students as C isn't a very friendly language in the first place. |
|
| Author: | Prabhakar Ragde [ Sat May 02, 2009 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
btiffin @ Sat May 02, 2009 8:28 am wrote: I've never had any reason to use Turing. Irrelevant. It's a teaching language. What, besides COBOL, did you learn in university that had immediate commercial application? The 6802 was obsolete before you graduated, and Pascal was a teaching language at the time, also. Quote: I fear that Ontario is decreasing overall, "as a group", compsci expertise. When teaching a language that some people like, build some pretty cool projects with and then ... management at the first job could care less, we are not getting the best bang per educational hour. 10,000 hours is a lot of hours to build expertise.
Who is spending 10,000 hours on programming in high school? I don't think the average student spends that much time in school and on schoolwork from Grades 9-12 in total. Quote: Why not give the odd course using a system that has some legs in the commercial arenas while still providing foundational computer science?
Why don't they put you in a 747 cockpit on your first day of flight school? Quote: Turing isn't going to help you keep up with the Python gurus at Google HQ. Is it your impression that said gurus had 10,000 hours experience programming in Python before they were hired by Google? Quote: In my, learn assembler first, crusty, old fart opinion. Maybe. But which assembler? Intel is a horrible accreted mess. The clean ones -- 8080, PDP-11 -- are all gone. MIPS is clean enough, but not meant for humans to write (it's meant for optimizing compilers to write). Edit: fixed bad tags. |
|
| Author: | Prabhakar Ragde [ Sat May 02, 2009 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
DemonWasp @ Sat May 02, 2009 3:48 pm wrote: As far as I can see, Turing is a combination of C's low-level nonsense (if you take code written for Turing 3.x that doesn't use the Pic, Draw, Sprite or similar modules, you could probably just add a few #define's at the top and get it to compile and run as a C program). That's not particularly helpful for most students as C isn't a very friendly language in the first place.
The original Turing was Pascal with cleaned-up syntax and with some of the type glitches corrected. Then they slathered OO concepts on top, which didn't really work. But teaching using the original language was as glitch-free as teaching imperative programming gets. Nothing else in use now comes close, if one wants to use that style of language and the goal is actual understanding. |
|
| Author: | Dan [ Sat May 02, 2009 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
BigBear @ 2nd May 2009, 1:26 pm wrote: Hey Dan were you apart of OpenT?
I had a small part in OpenT but it was mostly rizzix. I do plan on starting up a new project with a goal of making a Turing like language interpreter for educational use but that might not happen for some time. |
|
| Author: | BigBear [ Sat May 02, 2009 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
I am sure if you recruited people to make a Turing like interpreter you will find many users willing to join and help. But wasn't the problem with OpenT even with the support no one really knew how to do it? |
|
| Author: | Brightguy [ Sun May 03, 2009 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
A while back I acquired a copy of Turing 8.0C if you guys want to add it to your collection.  |
|
| Author: | BigBear [ Thu May 28, 2009 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Holt Software closer to releasing source? |
email it to Dan |
|