Computer Science Canada

Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Author:  endless [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
http://www.thestar.com/article/614219

what does everyone think?
personally, i think it's too much of a generalization, but i'm not seeing it first hand yet.
Author:  matt271 [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
im pretty lazy :]
Author:  jernst [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
I think its a very one sided argument. Just because university students use wikipedia frequently does not make them lazy. It can be smart in some cases. For example checking wikipedia during a lecture to look up a concept you don't understand can save you time and help you better understand the greater idea the speaker is trying to get across. The time saved allows the student to focus on more important details rather than getting bogged down in areas where they may have just needed a quick refresher. (this may be especially helpful for students who are too shy to just ask for greater clarification for example)

I agree thats its a problem if students rely only on wikipedia since you gain more thorough knowledge from a variety of sources, but in some cases it is valuable.

In terms of expecting success, in my personal experience I expected success in Calculus when I got to my first year university courses at WLU. After all I did have around a 90 at the end of high school. When I got there however, I got a rude awakening. I failed a diagnostic test with a 2 out of 20 and enrolled in the two semester calculus class rather than the one semester class to take it slower because of this. At this class which was designed for students who might have trouble by midterm I was almost failing. The class which started with probably 75-100 students was down to 20 students by the last few weeks, with most of the dropping it worried they would fail.

So where is the problem? Is it the students who are expecting to succeed? Or the high school teachers who are not covering the proper content, and maybe giving higher marks then the students they deserve. I for one would have been happier with a lower mark, expecting to have a hard time in university calculus rather than getting the shock I received. (by the way, I was in the first class of students to not do OAC)
Author:  ali_dada [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
I feel in Computer Science, the problem is not about being lazy but rather about being un-motivated and not being interested in the subject.

I have seen many people just doing Computer Science to get a degree and I tell them, why didn't you pick something easier where you could work even less and get a degree?

Seriously, if you are in 4th year and have problems in all of your assignments, quizes, etc and depend on others to do your work - you don't deserve to be at University.

This semester, I am working on 2 semester long projects and both were equally hard and involving and extremely long - well guess what, all my group members didn't show initiative so I ended up doing the entire work by myself while they get to do stupid tasks assigned to them and get free marks!

How do you expect these people to deliver at workplace?

Any other bad thing I found was overall wrong attitude of HR people and those recruiting. Most of the hiring staff are easily impressed by smooth talkers, and take looks into consideration. I am not advocating that a brilliant student dressed like 1950s who has no social skills is the best employee but at workplace, brains matter the most.
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
I read the article that day... As I recall, it talked mostly about math deficiencies. Well, perhaps that is the case in arts courses and the like, but I doubt there's a strong trend in CS or math programs.

High school classes are very much all over the place when it comes to comparing different schools, so I think it's fair to give everyone a chance from the start.
Author:  Dark [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
ali_dada @ Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:56 pm wrote:
I feel in Computer Science, the problem is not about being lazy but rather about being un-motivated and not being interested in the subject.

I have seen many people just doing Computer Science to get a degree and I tell them, why didn't you pick something easier where you could work even less and get a degree?


Yeah my friend is amazing at computer science, he loves it. He wrote a C++ compiler when he was 11 because he was "bored". I really thought he would go into computer science, but he's going into biology because he says it's "easy". He hates bio, he's getting a 54%, yet he's going into it because it's "easy". He is a computer science god, computer science is "easy" and interesting for him, yet he's going into bio....I pray for him next year, he will get merked.
Author:  Prabhakar Ragde [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Gandalf @ Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:53 am wrote:
I read the article that day... As I recall, it talked mostly about math deficiencies. Well, perhaps that is the case in arts courses and the like, but I doubt there's a strong trend in CS or math programs.


There certainly is.

http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/navigation/Current/AP_changes.shtml

Quote:

High school classes are very much all over the place when it comes to comparing different schools, so I think it's fair to give everyone a chance from the start.


The problem is that those who blow their chance tend to require vast amounts of resources (before they are kicked out or go away) that might be better spent on those who have a better chance to begin with.

(PS Gandalf, the damn square brackets in your name make it a pain to quote you!)
Author:  saltpro15 [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
hey Prabhakar, universities take into account what high school you attended when looking at your high school marks right? I come from a school with a brutal english teacher, by that I mean he's an excellent teacher, but he's never given anyone a final mark >89, and that hurts one's average.
Author:  Prabhakar Ragde [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
It's quite difficult to do that. The admissions people have some sense of what are good schools and what are not, but at a school with more than one Grade 12 English teacher, how are they going to know which one you had? Not to mention that, even in the technical subjects, they do not take the records of, say, Bachelor's graduates and correlate them with their incoming high school marks from four or five years previous. I'm not sure they'd get any useful information that way. I once graphed ICS3M marks against CS 135 marks. There was no correlation (looked like random data, the coefficient Excel reported was something like 0.07).
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
The education system in Canada fosters these kinds of work habits. Students nowadays feel that they are entitled to everything in the world and that they should just be handed to them on a silver plate. They fail to hand in assignments on time, skip tests and think they can just make up for them anytime, etc. And some teachers don't hand out late penalties.

Compare this to the system in China, where only the very best are allowed to go to university. Students who get into, let's say, Tsinghua University (called the MIT? or Harvard? of China) worked much harder to get to where they are now. However, one could also argue that Chinese universities turn out automatons instead of normal human beings. A balance must be struck, and I don't see that happening in Canada or China anytime soon.

There's also the matter of some Ontario universities not being very selective, so naturally, they will complain.
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
saltpro15 @ Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:09 pm wrote:
hey Prabhakar, universities take into account what high school you attended when looking at your high school marks right? I come from a school with a brutal english teacher, by that I mean he's an excellent teacher, but he's never given anyone a final mark >89, and that hurts one's average.


In Canada, if you have a high 80 average (or even 85) and a decent amount of volunteer hours (more than the bare minimum), you're guaranteed to get into 99% of Canadian programs you want to go into (there are some programs which require 90+). I mean, McGill University (one of the most selective in Canada) accepted nearly 50% of all applicants (a friend tells me they require a high 80 average). I don't think Canadian (or American) universities take into account which school you go to, only the rigor of the high school program that you took. However, universities might favour an exception for schools associated with universities (like UTS and U of T), but I don't know. It would be unfair to penalize students who go to high schools in slums, but achieve high results.

And even if you have an sub-80 average, don't worry, you still get to go to university.
Author:  Prabhakar Ragde [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Analysis Mode @ Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:04 pm wrote:
And some teachers don't hand out late penalties.


Some teachers are not permitted to hand out late penalties.

http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/article/223488

I had a lengthy e-mail discussion with a very bitter teacher from Peel Region over these sorts of policies.
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Oh, i'm assuming you're a teacher yourself?
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
To add something, my math teacher says that the Canadian mentality is to graduate everyboy from high school, instead of only the best. As a result of this, money is spent on people who don't care about school and will continue to fail, while studious students are being starved of enrichment opportunities. More money doesn't make a student change their philosophies about school and turn their education around, a personality/neighbourhood change or professional help does. I really hope I didn't step on too many toes by saying this.
Author:  Prabhakar Ragde [ Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Analysis Mode @ Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:17 pm wrote:
Oh, i'm assuming you're a teacher yourself?


Not high school.
Author:  Horus [ Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Well, I used to love math, ever since kindergarten. but i lost my interest in math in grade 9. this is what happened:
in grade 9, homework worth 25% of the marks. but the stupid thing is, teacher doesn't always collect homework, she only collected homework once in the entire first term. And for that one homework, I'm the only one in the entire class who didn't do. why? well here's the homework: an entire sheet of paper is filled with questions like 2x+3x=? which a grade 1 could do. all you have to do is tell the grade 1 to ignore the "X" and add an "X" at the end of your answer.
The homework can easily be finished in 2 minutes by the average grade 9. but I felt that it's just pointless to waste that 2 min doing grade 1 questions so I didn't do it instead i searched for harder contest type questions on the textbook and find easier ways to solve many questions. In the end I got 68% for the first term because of 0/25 on hwk. (the other 7% is lost from test/quiz for solving questions in an easier way from the way we are taught to do so) I managed to pull my marks up to 85% in the final for grade 9.
After that, I learned my lesson: You don't have to be smart or hardworking to get high marks just waste a few minutes to do those useless hwk or assignment that the teacher gives you. Also during test, always do the question in the way that the teacher teaches you, no matter how stupid that way is.
And that's what i've been doing from gr 10 to gr 12. and I've been getting higher mark compared to grade 9 where i loved math and tried so hard. It's becoming a habit for me to be lazy and not thinking of better ways to solve questions.
And i can tell i'm getting dumber now. In grade 9 i wrote the pascal contest, I didn't prepare for it or anything, in the end i scored 138/150 a score high enough for my name to be listed on the CEMC website. But later on i never do that well on contests. I've even prepared for the euclid contest by doing past contests and the online euclid workshop. but now that i finished the contest although the results isn't out yet, i know my score isn't high enough to be listed.
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Horus, I know exactly what you're talking about. All that is required for a 95+% in gr9 or 10 math is doing some homework and writing tests exactly the way the teacher tells you to >.>

Quote:
And i can tell i'm getting dumber now.

I wouldn't say so, I'd just say your conforming more to what the curriculum wants you to be, and the curriculum doesn't prepare students for math contests and such, the curriculum basically prepares students for a job at McDonald's. I hate this system where "everyone should graduate". No, not everyone should graduate, only the best should graduate, the rest are just going into the workforce anyway, why the hell waste teacher's time and taxpayer money on them anyway?

my 2 cents,

Drew
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
ya alot of teachers arent allowed to hand out late marks
...so what CAN u do?

saltpro
if its too slow for you STUDY ON YOUR OWN
co-operate with the system but be independant...thats what im learning to do Very Happy

and i dont agree with you....only the best should graduate?
theres a reason there are different degrees and colleges and universities
some graduates (ones who worked harder) will get into better universities and get better degrees and earn more money(well money could suk Razz)...
and if only the best can graduate we are basically neglecting the education of the general population....
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
what I mean is, a lot of time gets wasted on idiots in the high school systems, even though everyone knows these kids are just going straight into the workforce. of course I study on my own, if I just stuck with the course curriculum I wouldn't even know how to use arrays. I almost wish that, if you have the ability to teach yourself, you should be allowed to do so, making formal schooling optional. My idea is you would recieve the same instructional books the teachers get, along with a package of homework/questions/assignments to be completed, and you work on your own time. Unfortunately, this will never happen Sad
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
saltpro ok that...i agree with you COMPLETELY

work on your own time Very Happy
i dont know what highschool is like...but in middle school...when you do the work altogether....IT SUCKS
soo slow
let me give you an example

in my 7th grade geography class
my class read everything extremely slowly and discussed in a way that doesnt you give you any information directly related to the content in the book
so what did i do?
i read the book on my own and by the time they were through the first 3 sections or so i had read the whole book twice
guess what my first term geography mark was....a 95....(which is the highest possible mark in middle school Very Happy,danm midpoints...><)...

this is partially due to the fact that all of the questions were extremely easy but that....was because i read the book at MY SPEED...and read learned it MY wayy

now in 8th grade
i read along with the class...and do the teacher's way....(only cus she picks random students to read it Sad...and i cant be 50 pages ahead of the class Sad)
now...my geography marks...are in the 80s...(or 70s?)...and im learning LESS
because it is so slow paced...
if students were to do work on their own all of the time all of the students who work hard could learn MORE about the subject instead of learning it slowly

THIS IS MIDDLE SCHOOL
i have no idea what high school would be like
since my imagination of a highschool class is exactly the same as a university class
lone lecturer and a semi-cirlce filled with students all listening to him Very Happy
but im guessing thats not what a highschool class would look like?
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Quote:
have no idea what high school would be like
since my imagination of a highschool class is exactly the same as a university class
lone lecturer and a semi-cirlce filled with students all listening to him Very Happy
but im guessing thats not what a highschool class would look like?
excuse me for a moment,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

now that that's out of my system, sniper4life, try picturing 40 kids, half asleep, half doodling, 2 or 3 serious students actually doing WORK, and a teacher muttering some half-assed lesson for 20 minutes before talking about the hockey game last night >.> even the math and science classes are a joke, although the teachers are more involved usually.
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Wow, I didn't think there'd be this many people who agree with me. Yes, I agree with whoever said that idiots in high school go straight into the workforce and that we shouldn't be paying money to "help them". Like I said, they need professional help, not billion of dollars being tossed into the ocean. Oh, and workforce in this case is defined as "MacDonalds, Wendy's, NoFrills, cashiers, floor cleaners at malls, etc."

Someone (i don't quite remember who) once said," Don't let school control your education" or something like that. If you don't like what school teaches you, go out, get a book and sit down and read and enrich yourself. The school system here is dumbed down. The Ministry of Education pretty much controls universities, because if they choose to dumb down the curriculum, then the universities have ot dumb down their courses.

Oh and btw, I'm totally against the Afrocentric school being set up in the TDSB (for those who are aware of it, if not, google it).

1) It's segregation.
2) African kids aren't failing because of ethnicity, they're failing because they don't live in neighbourhoods conducive towards studying.
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
edit : sorry to crap on your fantasy, but that has been my high-school experience so far, with the exception of 2 awesome teachers, my science teacher Mrs. Robinson, and my CS teacher, Mr Hughes.

edit edit: Analysis Mode, you're thinking of "I never let schooling interfere with my education"
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Classes just aren't strenous anymore. We get assignments that really have nothing to do with learning material at all. AT least in math and physics, our marks are based entirely on tests (and labs). However, in chemistry and biology, it isn't. And I know that next year, the only subject where my mark is based only on tests is math. Unforuntately for other students, I know that even math has asssignments in whcih you get marks based on non-mathematical aspects.

I hate annoying assignments that just take up my time. If I were to learn the material that I actually learned from the assignment, it'd take me 10% of the time. And in univesrity, I don't think such assignments wil lbe handed out. Courses will be calcluated based on tests, exams and assignemtns that are actually worth doing and worth the time.
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
saltpro...i didnt write VERY HAPPY

that was a smiley Very Happy
it didnt have anything to do with the actual test...just my emotion towards it?

and like COME ON
schooling isnt that bad..like seriously...u need to go to some CRAP school for the teaching to be THAT bad...a class is 90 minutes long..

90-20=70

70 minutes of talking about the hockey game?
i doubt that...
with the student part tho...i can imagine...but a teacher doing that? i doubt it...
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
your classes are 90 minutes? 75 here and sorry, compsci glitches like that sometimes. The hockey game was just an example, but yes, usually there's about half the class time spent talking about unrelated topics. It's not a crap school (we have a pretty good CS team Wink ) just an uninvolved one I think
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
really 75?
how many classes do you have each day? O.O?
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
I'm not saying school is bad. I'm just not learning anything which I would really find useful in life. I mean, I don't think any of the assignemtns i get in school really prepare me for university (Except maybe english). as for learning the material, anyone motivated enoguh can do it on their own.
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
4 classes sniper4life, maybe there 85, idk, they feel like forever
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
My teachers are all pretty good, some better than others, but in general, they are all competent.

Howeve,r the Ministry of Education knows nothing about improving student learning, they only care about student remediation. And until the Grade 12 curriculum is nothing more than 1+1=2 and the graduation rate having three digits, they aren't going to stop cutting stuff out of the curriculum.
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
saltpro15 @ Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:52 pm wrote:
4 classes sniper4life, maybe there 85, idk, they feel like forever


i bet they do Very Happy
and k they should be 90 minutes then
but 85 seems ok too...
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
my school day is 8:15 - 2:25 with 40 min for lunch, you figure it out:D
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
ok so yuv got 370 minutes of school a day minus 40 for lunch..making it 330 minutes...and then with the 4 classes you divide the minutes by the amount of classes

giving you 82.5 minutes per class Very Happy
Author:  Horus [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
my school is 77 min +3 min break per class for 5 periods (lunch counts as 1 period)
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
my classes are 50 minutes each, and i have 6 periods Razz
1 hour for lunch
and 10 minutes for getting stuff from yur locker Razz
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
i should've mentioned we get 5 minutes between classes to get there, so take off a few minutes:P there 80 each
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
yuppers Very Happy
Author:  Prabhakar Ragde [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1520741
Author:  StealthArcher [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Our CHS4U (I think that was it's Code? G12 U Chem anyway), class was basically a haven for kids who worked Razz The teacher had such a long tenure (I think he actually retires this year too.) that they actually let him fail-mark you. And thus he did, the three people who slept in the class got 7, 13, and 22 respectively. It was almost funny yet sad at the same time.
Author:  saltpro15 [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Stealth, do you know where he lives? I quite possibly have a new role model. I wish teachers had the authority to dip a big "F" stamp in gas, stamp some idiot, then light it on fire, thus causing a "flaming fail"
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
saltpro your karma got lower?
im guessing your more hated now by the second? Razz

jk
Author:  yoursecretninja [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Analysis Mode @ Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:21 pm wrote:
To add something, my math teacher says that the Canadian mentality is to graduate everyboy from high school, instead of only the best. As a result of this, money is spent on people who don't care about school and will continue to fail, while studious students are being starved of enrichment opportunities. More money doesn't make a student change their philosophies about school and turn their education around, a personality/neighbourhood change or professional help does. I really hope I didn't step on too many toes by saying this.


If only the world were so black and white. In my own personal situation, I was not a stellar student in high school. It wasn't that I lacked the smarts, it was that I lacked the motivation. Nonetheless, educational dollars were "wasted" on me and I slid by and graduated and went straight into the workforce for 3 years working a crummy job. That crummy job gave me the motivation to go back to school. If the system gave up on me and I never got my high school diploma, going back to school would have been hard. However, with my diploma in hand, it was easy to go back to college. I went to college, worked a good job in marketing for several years... wanted to change careers, went back to school again for comp sci and am now working full time as video game programmer (still finishing my degree in part time studies). I don't regret the path I have taken at all. In the ten years since I've graduated high school, I've had three unique life experiences and I have learned to love learning - to appreciate its value. And I will continue to learn. People do change, and at the very least, having a high school diploma, makes it easier to change.
Author:  saltpro15 [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
well that's good and I am happy you found a good career.

unfortunately you are what I like to call a drop of water in the desert. not big enough or far too rare to be of value, no offense meant. For the general majority, Analysis Mode is right. Feel free to hate on me by lowering my karma Very Happy
Author:  Sniper4Life [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
well saltpro i dont hate you but sure il lower yur karma Very Happy
lol just to support your sig Razz
Author:  Analysis Mode [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Uni students lazier and dumber than ever?
Sorry if I offended you. I would not be complaining if everyone who was failing high school eventually turned out to be cases like you. Not only have you turned your education around, you now have a good job too. But, as saltpro15 said, your case is rare.

The psychological impact of failing a course is devastating to heart and soul. You feel left out if your teacher fails you. This is why I think failing HS students won't benefit from cash being thrown at them.

Yes, a high school diploma does help. And in the words of a caretaker at my school when I asked him about his work hours, "Work hard now, and and work easy later. Work easy now, and work hard later." Truer words were never spoken.'

:


You can syndicate this boards posts using the file backend.php or view the topic map using sitemap.php.

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy