Computer Science Canada

Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
Author:  wtd [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
I've seen the old Mac vs. Windows discussion come up here many, many times, and heck, what's another? Smile

This time I'd like to point out that there are cultural differences between the community of users surrounding both platforms. Of course, these are all generalizations, and very few people here are what I would call "normal" so keep that in mind while reading.


  1. Community

    Mac users, perhaps as a result of being a smaller group by far, tend to be more of a community. There is much more "word of mouth" and more faith is placed in that. On the other side of the fence, I have seen Windows users tend to place their faith in reviews and press releases to determine what's good and what isn't.

    Which one works better? I usually find that word of mouth does, especially with hardware. Hardware manufacturers aren't going to tell you their products suck, even if they do, and many great products come from small companies that don't have huge PR budgets. With software it can be a bit trickier. Computer users are a pretty diverse group of folks, and the feature one person is looking for in an application may be something the vast majority don't consider important. As such, word of mouth may pan an app that does the things the user is looking for reasonably well, even though the app does indeed generally suck. Communties can, of course, also fall victim to fanboyism.

    I suggest taking both sources of information with a grain of salt. Realize corporations lie, and that your best "word of mouth" information comes from a diverse, mature community.
  2. Expectations, Upgrades and Backward Compatibility

    Let's face it, Windows users, by and large, are addicted to backwards compatibility. They don't like change. Why is it that change doesn't seem to bother their Mac-using cousins so much?

    Apple has changed a lot in a relatively short period of time. Motorola 68K to PowerPC, then PowerPC to Intel. Classic Mac OS to Mac OS X. Legacy ports abolished. Mac users are used to change. It's just how the world works.

    But it's more than that. These changes have all, for the most part, been positive. Macs have gotten faster with OS updates. Peripherals have, on the whole, gotten more reliable. Applications have gotten to be more featureful.

    So what about backward compatibility? Well, these changes mean it's crap. We now know why they put up with it, but what does it mean for applications? In the Mac world, if a service or application stops working with a new OS update, there is a strong inclination to call into question the quality of the application. Perhaps not the quality of the code, per se, but rather the author's commitment to it. If they don't update it, usually something comes along to take its place and the world moves on.

    I've found Windows users are much more likely to curse the OS when an update breaks their favorite app, and search for a way to continue using the old OS where it did work.

    This is a huge cultural difference, and one which must be taken into account when considering the two platforms.


That's all I have energy for. If you have any thoughts on this subject, feel free to share.
Author:  Insectoid [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
I believe one example of mac community is macrumours.com or whatever it's called and dozens of other sites dedicated to mac. Mac has MacWorld, a convention held in honor of Mac (though it's future is questionable). Windows doesn't have conventions, Windows doesn't have fan sites. Most popular PPC apps have been recompiled to a universal binary, or are able to run in a PPC emulator. As well, more mac users are computer-savvy than PC users, and can see flaws in software better than PC users. What a PC user may think is just something computers do that can't be avoided, mac users see a major error that some company that rhymes with dypofloft didn't care to fix.
Author:  rdrake [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
insectoid @ Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:56 pm wrote:
Mac has MacWorld, a convention held in honor of Mac (though it's future is questionable). Windows doesn't have conventions, Windows doesn't have fan sites.
Nonsense. One of the highest profile events I can think of that Microsoft runs yearly is the PDC. There's also MIX, numerous events like EnergizeIT, and more.
Author:  wtd [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
rdrake @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:45 am wrote:
insectoid @ Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:56 pm wrote:
Mac has MacWorld, a convention held in honor of Mac (though it's future is questionable). Windows doesn't have conventions, Windows doesn't have fan sites.
Nonsense. One of the highest profile events I can think of that Microsoft runs yearly is the PDC. There's also MIX, numerous events like EnergizeIT, and more.


The names of these events highlight a problem for MS: the core focus of both is ultimately Windows or windows application development. Is "Windows" in the name?

Whereas, imagine you've never heard of it before and tell me what MacWorld is about. Smile
Author:  jbking [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
There's a few things I'd like to add:

1) There aren't any Windows Users Group that I know, but there are some Microsoft-centric groups like .Net User Groups for example. MSDN and TechNet subscribers are also part of a Microsoft community though I'm not sure how well known this is.

2) Microsoft does have an annual convention called the "Professional Developer's Conference" where various new Microsoft stuff is shown. Some of us know about this through our social network and may hear various stories about the good stuff Microsoft is making, or at least what they want to share.

3) The hardware vendor variance is something to note. While Apple is the only company making Macs, on the Windows side there is HP, Dell, Acer, Toshiba, Sony, and Fujitsu for big names as well as local white-box places all over. This makes support a bit different as in the Windows side how often does anyone go to Microsoft for support as opposed to the company that sold the PC or a store that sells PCs?
Author:  btiffin [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
Old guy opinions now
My preferences; in order, only counting Toy Computers.

"IBM PC" architecture with GNU/Linux or other unixy type OS, followed by Mac and MacOS (haven't used OS/X) and then, when forced, "IBM PC" with Windows.

All the various cultures are fantastic really. From the clueless to the loyal Amigans of old. (Being a REBOL programmer, one of the communities I hang out in won't let the Amiga thoughts go). Wink

ranting now
All are toys though. When a company has the balls to invent the small Business Computer, things may change, but for now, toys, nothing more. Only babysteps higher on the food chain than a television, imho.

When Microsoft runs its core business on the architecture using its software, that it wants other companies to run their core business on, the world will be in a better place.

pleading now
I'm still waiting for the announcement here you know. When a compsci.ca forum member invents a business class computer suitable for individual use but capable of running the backend of an insurance company. (And the frontend and the middle bits). That will be sweet. Where is it ladies and gentlemen? When? Who? Come on ... I'm old and can't wait forever. Smile

ending now
Cheers
Author:  wtd [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
You should use a Mac running Mac OS X. It's Unix, and it runs Adobe Photoshop, Microsoft Office, etc.

There's your perfect business computer.
Author:  Dan [ Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
Trying to find "Cultural Differences" in what type of hardware people use is just silly and basically trying to project the silly apple ads on to real life.

The majority of the time users (or the ones you would call normal) have litte choice in what hardware vendor and OS they are using or are not informed enough to make the decision based on anything but what the sales person tells them at future shop or the last cool looking ad they saw.

Also your argument is just a big straw man, you define the groups the way you want then try to determine witch is better. Obsessively the one you are biased too is going to look better when you get to define both arguments or groups your self.

For the people saying there are no Windows user groups out there or litte Windows/MS communitys thats either blatent lieing or being to lazy to use google.

Also as i have side many many many times you can't just compare mac to windows or mac to pc. You need to compare either the OSs to each other or the hardware arachetcher to each other. In some cases you are littery comparing hardware to software and it makes no secne at all. This is why it admazes me that you tryed to counter rdrakes point, wtd, saying that the microsoft event was not enough about windows when Mac is not even speficaly about software or hardware. At least MS knows weather they are focusing on hardware or software at there event.

I hate theses fan boy topics becues of the poor arugments and backwords logic used by both sides (including what ever side i am arguing for on a given day). When it comes down to it your "noraml" users are not going to know enought about any paltform to pick one based on any arugment made and any expericed user has allready made up there mind and will be close to unchangeable anyway.
Author:  x-ecutioner [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
ive never used a mac
but personally i just have this weird stereotype that Macboys are these soft kids who cant figure out how to work a computer or anything if their life depended on it. And i mean a machine thats too well scripted my assumption is that it has its limits right? And i mean its a pc world, macboys so accept it.
Ill admit it though yea, vista was entirely a joke terrible organized, structured, and marketed... it was ironic i was TURNING ON the damn firewall and vista would raise a security alert that windows firewall was trying to access my info...my point is how can i trust windows with my security when it doesn't even trust itself:P With vista especially, like, there was no sense of togetherness it was almost as if they didnt even beta test it all it was so bad.
Author:  saltpro15 [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
They're virtually the same, mac's are just harder to get tech support for if it breaks down. My dad runs a Staples, I know this for a fact lol, they aren't allowed to fix mac's in store, they have to ship it out to california, whereas windows they can fix and get back to you within a few days usually. Anyways, just run Linux on either and you're good to go;)
Author:  andrew. [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
I think that the average computer users should all be using Macs. It's more reliable, it faster, and it does the things they want out of the box. Most people use their computers only for web browsing, music, videos, and photos. Doing these things in Windows can easily become a nightmare. Macs are more simplistic and I think it suits the needs of average users better.
Author:  terrym [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
A worldwide convention of McIntosh apple eaters/growers? But don't mind me, I did grow up about 10 minutes away from where the McIntosh apple was founded (I grew up in Brinston, Ontario -- the apple was founded in Dundela, Ontario. Just down the street.

wtd @ Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:50 pm wrote:
rdrake @ Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:45 am wrote:
insectoid @ Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:56 pm wrote:
Mac has MacWorld, a convention held in honor of Mac (though it's future is questionable). Windows doesn't have conventions, Windows doesn't have fan sites.
Nonsense. One of the highest profile events I can think of that Microsoft runs yearly is the PDC. There's also MIX, numerous events like EnergizeIT, and more.


The names of these events highlight a problem for MS: the core focus of both is ultimately Windows or windows application development. Is "Windows" in the name?

Whereas, imagine you've never heard of it before and tell me what MacWorld is about. Smile
Author:  Zeroth [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
I propose we do what we do best and look at the technical side of things. Cultural differences are just too subjective to judge without bias. The goal would be to produce a chart comparing mac and windows and maybe a linux to each other.

Technical features:
Mac's Processes are the golden child, on windows its threads. Its faster to start a process on a mac or Linux than it is on windows, and vice versa about threads.
Mac has a stronger search capability than any other OS.

Thats all I can think of right now.
Author:  matt271 [ Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
they put a mac in the cs lab at my school. i thought it was funny. i figured they put it in to see how we react to it.
we installed gentoo on it.
Author:  saltpro15 [ Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
@matt, lol, same thing I would have done, OS X sucks. How did you do it though? I thought Mac's couldn't run *nix OS's?
Author:  wtd [ Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
If you were any kind of computer enthusiast at all, you would know that Mac OS X is more UNIX than Linux is.
Author:  matt271 [ Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
saltpro15 @ Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:33 am wrote:
@matt, lol, same thing I would have done, OS X sucks. How did you do it though? I thought Mac's couldn't run *nix OS's?


http://bouncer.gentoo.org/fetch/gentoo-2008.0-minimal/ppc/
Author:  Prabhakar Ragde [ Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
Zeroth @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:28 am wrote:
I propose we do what we do best and look at the technical side of things.


That's like comparing the US and Canada by looking at carbon emissions or GDP per capita. Sure, you can do it, but you're leaving out a pile of important factors.

People who are good at the technical side of things need to work on their skills on the cultural side.
Author:  Zeroth [ Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mac vs. Windows: Cultural Differences
Prabhakar Ragde @ Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:34 pm wrote:
Zeroth @ Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:28 am wrote:
I propose we do what we do best and look at the technical side of things.


That's like comparing the US and Canada by looking at carbon emissions or GDP per capita. Sure, you can do it, but you're leaving out a pile of important factors.

People who are good at the technical side of things need to work on their skills on the cultural side.


Well, I think my point wasn't very clear: culture is very subjective. Now, if you happen to be an Anthropologist or sociologist, fine, but everyone has different, biased views of the culture of ______. In addition, its very hard to speak quantitatively about and compare cultures, when people's experiences of those cultures will differ.

Now, the idea that Linux forums are abrasive and mean to people is an interesting myth, and I will attempt to bust it in the classic mythbuster fashion: explosives.

Okay, kidding. But the story that linux communities are abusive and abrasive is heavily biased in the teller's favor. We assume for one, that the person asking for help asked a valid question or sought help in the proper fashion. Demanding answers is not the right way. Saying how much linux sucks is also not the right way. Ignoring a similar thread that is right there, is again, not the right way. But assuming that they actually did ask a good question, what if their view of the response is wrong from the objective reality? Again, the story doesn't give any hints as to what happened. Maybe someone was brusque, and told the person bluntly its their fault. Many people have too fragile egos, and so they go around talking about how those "dweebs" and "nerds" were rude and abusive to them.

People don't like people that are smarter than them. So they want to believe that there is a social "shortcoming" with geeks and nerds and dweebs. The stories of linux abuse is just an example.

I've spent time on a lot of technical forums, mostly linux. Far too much time maybe... but not once have I ever seen someone lambast a new person for asking a question, silly or not. Not once have I ever seen someone freak out on someone asking a genuine question. Its a story archetype which is quite largely false. 99% of the time, you will get expert, kind, considerate help. Its that 1% of socially maladjusted person that makes things worse for everyone else. Those people usually get smacked but hard.

There are too many sides to the perspective. But it is a key reason why culture is subjective. Someone may hate macs because the 2-3 users they know are supercilious and arrogant about being mac users.(Joke I heard: I wouldn't be proud to be using an operating system that prides itself for being easy for idiots!) But other mac users are great, kind, warm, funny people. Does this mean the culture is kind, warm, funny? Or.... maybe its just that it varies across people?

This is why you cannot objectively compare "cultures" of operating systems, not unless you do it scientifically, admit all bias, and self-analyze. Two different people will have two very different views of the cultures, and thus argue at cross-purposes.

I'd also like to add that the computer science colleagues I've known were significantly better with people, more mature, and more respectful than the stereotypes would suggest. In fact, they are much more decent people than most non-geeks I've ever met. I'm getting really tired of this whole "social" vs "technical" divide people seem to have. Being technical does not preclude having social skills. Having social skills does not preclude having technical skills. Don't make assumptions people.

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