Computer Science Canada

Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
Author:  endless [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
i know many of us are probably just scraping by to get into our desired courses at Waterloo or Toronto or whatever which is apparent by all of the questions and stressing out with our marks.

i'd like to know if you guys have looked into the difficulty once we are in our course that we worked so hard to get into.

i wonder this because i have a friend that was around the same average as mine last year and got into Waterloo for CS, but he could not keep up with the math (even with high 80s in 4U high-school math courses) and has ended up transferring into a different course. He has informed me of many difficulties such as minimum grade to stay in co-op is 75% which is pretty hard to keep up to it seems, and not to mention the large work load, and more.

as of now if i had to choose, i would probably take my Economics at UW or Laurier knowing that i should be able to keep up.

so, have you guys looked into your potential in your course once you have been accepted?

any advice from current student at any uni's would be extremely helpful to us all i'm sure.
i'm not trying to bring people down, just trying to be realistic.
Author:  Tony [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
I'm not sure what you are asking there.

The programs are challenging, but then again that's why everybody's applying. The dropout rate (though this includes change in major) is usually high, but this lets the rest of the students to get to more interesting stuff in upper years.
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
Yes, you should definitely look beyond simply getting accepted at whatever university you're trying to get into. That's the difference between a rash decision and a well informed one. Reputation isn't everything, obviously.

The difficulty of CS at schools like U of T and Waterloo isn't to be underestimated, although it isn't too hard to adapt as long as you take things seriously. Also, be realistic. For example, if you're slacking off in high school and still end up getting low 80s, say, you can do well in university, but you'll need to develop some work habits. On the other hand, if you're working like a maniac to get low 80s in high school you might want to reconsider if increasing that workload by a huge factor will be something you can handle. Those are just some of the things you might want to think about... [Almost] nothing is impossible, though, so don't let that stop you from accepting a university's offer. Wink
Author:  jernst [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
I also considered this when deciding where to go to a few years ago. I ended up going to an "easier" school and have some regrets but also kind of feel like it was the right choice as well. In terms of finding a job directly after undergrad, I feel like I would have had an easier time finding better jobs had I gone to Waterloo. (I did get some decent job offers, and have friends in the program who got good ones) However I have a feeling my marks wouldn't have been near as high as they were at the other school. Because I had decent marks, it allowed me to go onto my Masters, which I'm not sure I would have managed had I gone to Waterloo. If I could do it again though, I would probably try to get it both ways Razz study my ass off at Waterloo and still try for the Masters..haha. Hopefully I'll get in there for my phd *crosses fingers*
Author:  bugzpodder [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
endless @ Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:01 pm wrote:
i know many of us are probably just scraping by to get into our desired courses at Waterloo or Toronto or whatever which is apparent by all of the questions and stressing out with our marks.

i'd like to know if you guys have looked into the difficulty once we are in our course that we worked so hard to get into.

i wonder this because i have a friend that was around the same average as mine last year and got into Waterloo for CS, but he could not keep up with the math (even with high 80s in 4U high-school math courses) and has ended up transferring into a different course. He has informed me of many difficulties such as minimum grade to stay in co-op is 75% which is pretty hard to keep up to it seems, and not to mention the large work load, and more.

as of now if i had to choose, i would probably take my Economics at UW or Laurier knowing that i should be able to keep up.

so, have you guys looked into your potential in your course once you have been accepted?

any advice from current student at any uni's would be extremely helpful to us all i'm sure.
i'm not trying to bring people down, just trying to be realistic.



where the hell is the reply button when you are not logged in?

First of all, you don't need 75% average to stay in coop. I believe it's 60% or something. Secondly, you only need about 5-6 year 1 and 2 math courses. Yes, it won't be a piece of cake, but it's not that bad either if you study.
Author:  endless [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
Tony @ Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:02 pm wrote:
I'm not sure what you are asking there.

The programs are challenging, but then again that's why everybody's applying. The dropout rate (though this includes change in major) is usually high, but this lets the rest of the students to get to more interesting stuff in upper years.


sorry, i guess i was kind of all over the place.

personally, i right now would probably take economics at UW over comp sci due to knowing i can make it through economics, although i don't want to dismiss computer science just because it's a challenge. i am just looking for some insight into the computer science course.

maybe it would be a good idea to take my early acceptance to carleton computer science even if i get offered to waterloo?

i think this could be a good resource for others in my position to become more realistic.
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
Again, don't let fear make you avoid a good school. As long as you're realistic about your expectations, you should be fine wherever you end up.

Remember, it's far more important to go into a program that you are genuinely interested in than something you think will be easier. Every program eventually becomes difficult in some way... There's no way for you to know how it really is until you get there and start studying. And don't underachieve.
Author:  nike52 [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
Come on, even if you a fail a course, you can take it again.

As for economics or compsci, which one do you like better?
Author:  jbking [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
I took the advanced Math courses, e.g. 145 and 147 for first semester Math courses instead of 135 and 137, and found them to be challenging and neat. There is some choice in the upper year courses which shouldn't be forgotten as for example I didn't take any 4th year programming courses and instead had courses in Algorithm Design and Analysis(466), Computational Complexity(464), Symoblic Computation(487), and Introduction to Artificial Intelligence(486) for my choices with I think one more than I needed.

It may also be worth noting that courses may change between now and when you get to those upper year courses as I remember when I was at Waterloo there would a few courses I wanted to take but they didn't offer them after some government cutbacks.
Author:  Tony [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
nike52 @ Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:57 pm wrote:
Come on, even if you a fail a course, you can take it again.

Well, up to a certain limited number of times.

Anyway, ideally you would want to pursue the subject that interests you the most, in a setting that challenges you to the best of your abilities. This combination is incredibly difficult to get right though. Keep in mind that, given then opportunity, one can switch majors/faculty/university after giving their first program a try. Naturally it is easier to switch "down" from "more difficult" to "less difficult" programs, although all of this is very subjective.
Author:  implosion [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
nike52 wrote:
Come on, even if you a fail a course, you can take it again.


i heard that if you fail english during second year that they kick you out ? @ waterloo
Author:  Horus [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
implosion @ Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:45 pm wrote:
nike52 wrote:
Come on, even if you a fail a course, you can take it again.


i heard that if you fail english during second year that they kick you out ? @ waterloo


I thought u don't even need to take English in university. Unless you are like ESL or sth...
Author:  Brightguy [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
Simple advice: if you choose CS you should like math.

And no, you don't have to take English. I only had to write one essay in all of undergrad (thankfully).

jbking: Good choices. Those courses are still around, except Computational Complexity, sadly.
Author:  endless [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
i actually don't have a computer science background, but i am really into math and if i were to go in the direction of math, i thought i would match it with computers for more job potential. so maybe the inexperience is pushing me away (note: i have read the thing about high school CS may be a step in the wrong direction, etc.)

as for which interests me more, economics really interests me, especially the stock market. although i think on one hand it might be worth challenging myself through school to get a normal job with relatively lower stress level and with normal hours, compared to getting through school and having high stress or crazy long hours where the market is my life.

i know this forum may be biased toward comp sci, and i think that may be better for me in the long run, but i'm still not sure.
Author:  smoovee [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
endless @ Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:00 pm wrote:
personally, i right now would probably take economics at UW over comp sci due to knowing i can make it through economics, although i don't want to dismiss computer science just because it's a challenge. i am just looking for some insight into the computer science course.

maybe it would be a good idea to take my early acceptance to carleton computer science even if i get offered to waterloo?

i think this could be a good resource for others in my position to become more realistic.


If you are really interested in computer science, I think you should take comp. sci at carleton rather than going into a program you don't want as much just because it is at a school you like. Remember, you are training for a job that you want to have for the rest of your life, and while the schools are different, spending your life doing economics or stuff with computers is much more different. (Yes I know a lot of people don't end up working in the major they started in, but you are still training to).

If you want to do computers and you think waterloo will be too hard, I'd say take it at carleton. It's what you want to do.
Author:  Tony [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
implosion @ Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:45 pm wrote:
i heard that if you fail english during second year that they kick you out ? @ waterloo

Just to clarify this point : UW has an English proficiency test (which could be bypassed by an English course) that needs to be passed in order to proceed past second year in your major.
Author:  DemonWasp [ Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
The ELPE (English Language Proficiency Exam) was, in my experience, laughably easy. If you pass grade 12 english you should be fine. Even if you fail it, you can write it again, or just take an English course.
Author:  jernst [ Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
Horus @ Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:21 pm wrote:
I thought u don't even need to take English in university. Unless you are like ESL or sth...


You may want to take English if you plan on going to grad studies at certain schools. I've found a few programs at the masters and phd level in Canada that seem to have a requirement for undergrad english. (I didn't take it unfortunately)
Author:  Prabhakar Ragde [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Difficulty of CS/CE.. at UW/UoT etc.
jbking @ Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:57 pm wrote:

It may also be worth noting that courses may change between now and when you get to those upper year courses as I remember when I was at Waterloo there would a few courses I wanted to take but they didn't offer them after some government cutbacks.


Courses are not cancelled because of "government cutbacks". There are only so many teaching tasks among permanent faculty (who continue to be paid regardless of cutbacks), with some extra slack through hiring sessional instructors, and they decide what to offer each year based on what people have asked to teach, who is qualified to teach it (some people may have left or be on sabbatical), and what historic demand has been like. A course that has a waiting list each term will tend to be offered regularly; one that had only ten students last time it was taught might be offered more sporadically.

To the OP: you can move back and forth between Waterloo CS and Math pretty easily, or combine them. Combining CS with Econ is also possible because there's a fair amount of free choice (more so than in a typical major). We try not to admit students that we don't think will make it through. Many struggle in first year (it is an adjustment) but recover. Some don't, for various reasons (some not having anything to do with ability). Going into an easier program is like going to an easier exercise class. You'll get through it, but you'll also reap less benefit. --PR

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