Computer Science Canada

something you never want to do with windows
Author:  ecookman [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  something you never want to do with windows
i recently bought the game "World In Conflict"....kinda a pig to run.
so i loaded it on to my computer...and my graphics card was lacking some power..aaannnddd i could have used a little more ram.

so running the ultility msconfig....i started to turn off running programs that i didn't need like: setpoint, msn.....ect.
so prom my usual 120some odd processes I was down to around 40. still was having major problems running the game with all and yes i said all of the neat and flashy effects like tree physics shadows water effects explosion effects...


so then it was time to turn off some of the system utilities that i didn't need like fax support and the useless help wizards(yes i was reluctant to do this too)...Computer needed a restart...and then uhuo on the startup after i signed in a "nice" little popup special ordered from windows...



"you need to validate your copy of Windows XP in 3 days"

when i saw this i was all like o sh--

so i didn't know where the disk was...so i asked my father (it was his idea to turn off lots of ultilities) where the disk was...20 min searching later found it...stupid disks


only realizing that we accidentally turned off the port service, sound drivers, and something else to access the internet with on our super secure network (hidden SSID, you are given a fixed port, and i think it is a TIC-WPA...(i think i am wrong..the passcode is more than a WEP key) lots more and if that wasn't enough if your MAC code isn't registered on the router you won't be able to access the network .)sooo anyway...we couldn't register stupid windows.


well one thing left to do ...turn all of the programs and ultitlties back on....well you would think that would work but noooo, not even after a restart.


only thing left to do... Evil or Very Mad a reformat of the C drive T>T not fair



Since i am getting a dell studio 17 with 256 dedicated graphics, 320GB HDD, 3GiG of ram, backlit keyboard, running Crapsta (vista)..my settings aren't compatible with it anyway...sooo not to worried it was going to happen but i have no computer to the 15'th...and not to mention the 1 week reinstalling all of my programs and ISU's to do and Exams to do in 2 weeks...fun



lesson learned: don't screw with windows
Author:  Vertico [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: something you never want to do with windows
Lesson learned: Don't touch things you don't understand.
Author:  gianni [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
So this is related to programming in what way? I'm not even sure there is a point to this post, as many developers "screw with windows" on daily basis for their careers.

This is a just a story about how you changed a bunch of settings and then were unable to understand what happened. There isn't even any advice here...
Author:  DemonWasp [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
This just sounds like a cavalcade of fail to me:
1. You have 120 processes running for what reason? I'm running 6 applications at the moment and I'm only at 41 processes. Perhaps you should pare back the amount of crap you leave running on your computer all the time.
2. If you don't know exactly what you're doing with Window's guts, stay the hell away from them. The same applies to the guts of any OS, but Windows is particularly finickity. I've modified mine slightly, but at least I have an idea of what I'm doing.
3. Sweet gods, you "accidentally" turned off your sound drivers, and port service? Those both sound kinda important to your stated goal of being able to play WiC.
4. ...just how far below "Minimum Requirements" were you?
5. Proper use of grammatical constructs, particularly commas and capital letters, helps a lot with both presentation and the delivery of your story.

To be fair, some of the fail is on WiC's end too. Alt-tabbing away from that program is a poor plan...you get back to your desktop in about 2 seconds and do whatever (respond to the instant message...), then you try to alt-tab back. That's when the waiting begins; generally you have about 5-10 minutes to wait for it. The game itself didn't seem particularly worthwhile, sadly.
Author:  ecookman [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Sorry about gramatical errors ... I currentally don't have acomputer, I wrote that in school quickly. personally...I like WIC
Author:  rdrake [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: something you never want to do with windows
ecookman @ Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:46 am wrote:
Crapsta (vista)
Clever Rolling Eyes

You have very draconian security on your router.
Author:  andrew. [ Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
All of that for World in Conflict? The game doesn't run very well even on good hardware in the first place. Also, killing a few processes probably won't get you much unless you're killing some useless crap you installed on your computer or some kind of spyware.
Author:  DemonWasp [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Worth noting is that the draconian security measures may not be buying you much. You might stop a really dumb script kiddie, but if someone has the right programs they should be able to see your network just fine.

And, as I recall, there aren't any wireless security schemes that aren't crackable within a few minutes.
Author:  andrew. [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Although you are correct DemonWasp, at least putting some kind of passcode and hiding the SSID will stop a few neighbours from stealing internet.
Author:  Insectoid [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Just code your own security! WEP is crackable in seconds, while WPA can be cracked in under 10 minutes. There are dozens of programs available for every operating system to allow even a beginner to break into a network. If you make your own encryption, all those tools are useless. I keep my network mac-address filtered, personally. But then, where I live, someone would have to by parked in my driveway to connect.

When I like a game that is beyond my hardware, I decide that I'm behind the times and get a new one. That simple. I'd bet you could get a WiC-runnable PC for under $1000.
Author:  Dan [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:something you never want to do with windows
insectoid @ 6th January 2009, 4:42 pm wrote:
Just code your own security! WEP is crackable in seconds, while WPA can be cracked in under 10 minutes.


Thos times are very very optmistic, and would require a prity impersive cluster of computers. Also WEP and WPA are out of date and the not most mondern security for wifi, WPA2 using AES encryption is considering to be secure (WPA2 is also required for all new wifi devices since some time in 2006 or 2007). Also you should be using a mac filiter on top of that (witch is posible to get around more esialy then WEP and WPA but makes it that much harder).

insectoid wrote:

If you make your own encryption, all those tools are useless. I keep my network mac-address filtered, personally. But then, where I live, someone would have to by parked in my driveway to connect.


If you where to make your own encryption you would have to rewirte the firmware in your router (or AP) and all wifi aptators on your network. Also it would likey be less secure, WPA2 and AES have been studyed and gone threw numerses reasearch papers and peer reviews, even if you could come up with somthing better it would take a long time to prove it. Unless you mean a type of tunneling/VPN in witch case there are allready exsitcing soultions considered to be secure and you would have to be routing all your traffic threw some other network.
Author:  Insectoid [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Meh, that was more of a joke than anything. And if it is taken as something other than a joke, then I meant a personal encryption that you do not share. If only you use it, why would anyone crack it? And yes, I did realize it would be complicated. Assuming you did do it, you would be immune to all the tools that crack these for you, because only you have that encryption.
Author:  Dan [ Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Normaly in determing the security of an encryption algorithm you assume the attacker has a copy of the code.

Also that is more security through obscurity then anything to do with the encryption.

It would be alot easier to change the frequicey to somthing not noramly standard for norath amarica. Most wifi cards are capable of transmiting on more ferquencyies then the firmware on them are coded to allow so WiFi cards and APs just need diffrent firmware for diffrent countries with diffrent unrelgulated frequeny ranges. For example, most linksys wirless routes can transmit on channel 13 of the 2.4ghz spetume with hacked firmware (when noramly they only allow 1 to 11). This is still not very secure but would make the router harder to find or use. (It's also illgeal as it's out of the allowed channels.)
Author:  Zeroth [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: something you never want to do with windows
In terms of wireless security the best is a RADIUS Server, for which there are lots of linux live cds to do this Wink

Now to the actual actions in the post. Why didn't you go back to msconfig? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can turn processes back on in there. Theres also a process manager buried in the control panel that can do this too. So you just wiped and reinstalled for... no reason? The most consistent rule with MS is that their config tools will usually let you undo changes you made with them.

However, the point you learned is simple: don't tinker with what you don't understand. Just because you get things to work well usually on Computers and that you have a bit of an idea, doesn't mean you are the Expert on everything. And since your dad didn't know what to do after this, I would say your dad isn't either.
Author:  Dan [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: something you never want to do with windows
Zeroth @ 7th January 2009, 9:50 am wrote:

However, the point you learned is simple: don't tinker with what you don't understand. Just because you get things to work well usually on Computers and that you have a bit of an idea, doesn't mean you are the Expert on everything. And since your dad didn't know what to do after this, I would say your dad isn't either.


I dissagree, i think tinkering is a great way to learn what the settings do and more about how the OS works. It would be a good idea to also look up what each process does that you are playing with and tyring to just turn one off at a time so you can isloicate the effcect of turning that process off better.

I know when ever i get new software or a game the first thing i allways do is go to the settings and play wiht them for a bit, some times playing with the settings is more fun then the game. Noramly the worst case is you just have to reset everything to defaut (msconfig does have such an option) and you get to learn how to fix a computer once you break. I have locked my self out of my router countless times playing with the settings in there but over the long run it has thought me alot more about how the router works and about networking then just leaving them on default (combined with looking up the desrciption of the setting the routers help manaul too tho).
Author:  DemonWasp [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Alright, how about this: Don't tinker with something you NEED to have working. If it's your only computer, don't putz with it. Get a junker and putz with that.

At the very least, if you totally toast the machine, you won't lose much. Plus, you can always use the other machine to look up stuff on the Internets, to fix the problem.
Author:  Insectoid [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Before tinkering, back up important files to another storage medium. I don't back up games, but the profile or savegame folders. If you really screw up your machine, you won't lose those files. You just re-install the software and swap out the new save/player profiles with the old one.

If it's a family computer, don't mess with it. They'll get mad at you. I know. Trust me.

Once you decide you can't fix it, ask your mother's cousin's friend's computer-savvy brother to come over and fix it, while watching his every move, and asking questions. I've learned everything from virus removal to identifying malfunctioning hardware (malfunctioning to the point where it won't boot) from this.

I love to tinker around with settings. I learn a lot of tricks and stuff I might use later on.
Author:  Vertico [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: something you never want to do with windows
Over the years I have screwed up my own computers so many times I have lost count. Through the failures you learn your mistakes.

That and Win 95 wasn't very stable.
Author:  ecookman [ Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
yes but on the router...if your computer's MAC code isn't registered you can't aces the network let alone look at it, because the SSID is hidden...





lol the computer is a "family" computer, but everyone has their own computer and my father was the one who suggested it to me XD...hopefully on the 12'th my dell studio 17 will be arriving. I am going to be partitioning the drive for: work 1 partition per high-end game like crysis, and one for linux so i can play with the folding windows XD lol and learning how to use it too



and finally...doesn't anyone find 3 days to register a little unrealistic?

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and sorry if you think this topic is out of place i was like computer related....general...if you feel it is out of place please move it


and for all of you saying "ooh this is so you can just get your posts up....i fron upon you...by posting that aren't you doing that.....post whording is for squares....i am a triangle
Author:  Dan [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:something you never want to do with windows
ecookman @ 7th January 2009, 7:21 pm wrote:
yes but on the router...if your computer's MAC code isn't registered you can't aces the network


MAC filiters are not realy ment for security (or at least they should not be). It is posible to spoof a MAC address to make your appator look like another and you can get the MAC addresses on the network by watching the wifi traffic. There are serveral script kiddy type tools to do this but it can offten also be done threw simpley messing with some settings (for windows it just needs a few regisitry edits).

There is also an attack called ARP poisoning or ARP spoofing witch can let the attacker trick the network into ascoiating a MAC address with a diffrent IP. More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_poisoning


ecookman wrote:

let alone look at it, because the SSID is hidden...


Hidden the SSID does not stop peoleop form knowing the network is there just what the SSID is to use it. Also there is software out there now like AirMagnet that scans for packets going threw the wireless network and trys to get the SSID from them since the SSID is containted in some of the packets in the 802.11 protical. Also there are tools witch send fake packets to the AP witch trick it in to revealing the SSID.


If you want your WiFi to be secure you need to use WPA2 and if posible with RADIUS tho i still think it is prity secure with just a long key and AES.
Author:  DemonWasp [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:something you never want to do with windows
ecookman @ Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:21 pm wrote:
...1 partition per high-end game like crysis, and one for linux...


Nurrrrr. Down that path lies darkness, young padawan. No, not the linux partition (though you'll actually want to have three partitions for linux: one for swap, which is probably about 1-2gb, one for /home, and another for / ...this gives you the ability to reinstall the entire OS and keep your /home intact). The linux partition(s) are a great idea.

The 1 partition per game is not.
Author:  ecookman [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
oooh linux sounds risky....hmmmmmm.....you would have to give me a complete breakdown on how to properly partition the drive.......





and maby i am a little partition happy ^_^ lol yes onne partition per game does seem excessive...lol duhhhhh just make a profile ofr the games and only have the system ultilities in the start >.>
Author:  DemonWasp [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Here's how I partition my multi-os gaming desktop (or how I would if it had only one hard disk...):

1. Install Windows. When it asks you to partition the computer, create a single partition that uses up all but about 20-30GB of the hard drive. Leave the rest unformatted and install windows on the first partition. This partition will use the NTFS filesystem, which is Window's new default and a huge upgrade on the previous FAT32 system.

2. Install Linux (I recommend Ubuntu, though there are a lot of other choices, many of which are just as easy, including Linux Mint and a few others I can't remember at the moment). When you get to the partitioner, do the following:

2.1. Select your primary partition (you should be able to recognise its size; the partitioner will understand ntfs and be able to tell you how much is used, etc). Select "edit partition" or similar, and tell the partitioner to use it as NTFS, and mount it as /windows or similar. DO NOT FORMAT YOUR WINDOWS PARTITION.

2.2. Select the remaining free space and click "New Partition". Use this one as swap area, and give it 2GB of space. "Swap" means the same thing as "virtual memory"; in Linux it's a separate partition which can prevent a lot of issues and avoids complications with different filesystem implementations.

2.3. Select the remaining free space and click "New Partition". This next partition will be your /home directory, which contains all your personal files and data, including code, documents, music, videos, etc. Give it a decent size, preferably at least 5GB, 10+GB is better. The filesystem is up to you (I recommend reading up on ext3 and reiserfs at the very least - I use reiser, but ext3 is the default).

2.4 Select the remaining free space and click "New Partition" This last partition will be the root directory (/). Give it the remainder of your space, and choose a filesystem. I would recommend reiserfs for the root partition, as I've noticed a slight benefit to system boot time and responsiveness with that filesystem.

3. When prompted to do so, reboot the system. You should be presented with a choice as to which operating system you want to boot into at each system startup.
Author:  andrew. [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
This is how my partitions would look if I were you:
hda1 - Windows (NTFS)
hda2 - Linux (ext3)
hda3 - Linux Swap
hda4 - Media Partition (FAT32)
Author:  Dan [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
I find that it can be a good idea to have a partition just for the page file in Windows. I find it makes it faster if your computer is using the page file a lot as there is no or little fragmentation and the page data should be sequental on the hard drive.

Tho recently i have been experimenting with turning off paging all together on windows when you have a lot of ram (at least 3 or 4GB) witch seems to work even better in most cases.

Also i personally don't like using the FAT file system if i can help it. There are drivers for linux now that can read NTFS and FAT limits the max file size so at least for me it is not very good for media.
Author:  DemonWasp [ Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
FAT has other issues, such as not being a journaling filesystem. It's also just not as fast, either. I see no reason not to just mount your windows drive as /windows. Extra drives, of course, should be NTFS so they're readable from both operating systems.

It's worth noting that as it's a new computer, it will almost certainly be "sda", not "hda".
Author:  andrew. [ Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
Yeah, I should've put the media partition as NTFS, but I use a Mac and OS X can't natively write to NTFS without modification. I've stopped using NTFS for such a long time that I just naturally stay away from it.
Author:  ecookman [ Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:something you never want to do with windows
cccooommmmmppplllleeeexxxxx



wow all of that


lol the computer is now working...the bare bones...with 2g of ram more.. WiC runs quite nicely lol

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