Computer Science Canada

My concerns about university
Author:  Horus [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  My concerns about university
Hi all I'm new here.


I'm a grade 12 student and I like programming alot, and so I want to go into CS in university.

In my school, I'm at the top of the class in CS, however when I did the dwite contest 2 days ago, I noticed I'm only average. I only managed to do the first 2 questions in dwite, and the third question I got 4/5.

Now I'm worried about myself falling behind when I get to university.

I want to go to UW, however my current average is only 80.6, I probably can improve 2-3% next term, but i'm still worried about my marks being too low to get accepted.
asides from marks, there are the other factors that determine going into university, I'm not if what I'm doing is good.
for CCC, i probably will get pretty low like my dwite result.
for Euclid, I get on the honor roll for math contests half of the time, so I'm probably ok.
The extra curriculum acitivities:
I'm the VP for the school's chinese chess club and a regular member for school's computer club.
I only have exactly 40 hours of volunteer experience.
However I do have 400+hours of work experience as a lifeguard (I don't see how this is related to CS)
And I have level 8 piano, but I stopped playing after gr 10.

Do you think I can make it?

Asides from UW, I'm still thinking which universities should be my 2nd/3rd choice.

here's all the universities I've considered:

carleton (they say that they have all the big companies like IBM for your coop program)
UFT (I live in toronto)
Western (one of my best friend is going there)
UOIT (labtop based university FTW?)
McMaster (they seem to have higher admission average than all the universities above, so I think they are good?)

which one should be my 2nd/3rd choice?
Author:  Zeroth [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My concerns about university
I like how everyone assumes you need mondo fantastic marks to get into these universities. Well, Horus, have you done any independent research yourself, like say checking the school's website for their admission standards? Or talking to your counselor? The school's do not lie about their standards, nor do you need to be extra-special these days to get in. Just make sure you are a well-rounded student, with a good social life, responsible for homework and studying, and mature enough to live on your own.
Author:  rdrake [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
You should be fine with that average. If you can bring it up, all the power to you.

As far as schools are concerned 40+ hours is still 40 hours, it's just a check mark on your record.

All the extra curricular activities are good. If Waterloo's your thing, be sure to submit a listing of what you do outside of classes on the AIF.

Personally I like the atmosphere of UOIT. It's pretty small and professors are always around to help you with questions. The only disadvantage is there isn't much else non-school related to do on campus, and sometimes your schedule won't work out nicely.
Author:  Horus [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Thx for the replies both of you.

I did do my research, I've been to the university fair. They say that it's 85% to guarantee that I'll get admitted, anything between 80-85 is a maybe.

(and I want to get into COOP, not regular)

One more thing I should have said is that I took gr 12 English in summer school, because I suck at English and want to get it over with. my final mark was 66%...
This might be bad... especially when summer school usually give higher marks and I get so low.

I'm also worried about my CS skills, sure I might be at the top of the class in my school, but in DWITE i'm only average and below when I wrote it. I'm not sure if I can follow in university.

and PS when you said submit everything you do after school on AIF, should I submit about myself playing computer games?
In this game I'm the VP of a 100 member guild, and our guild rank in the entire world is #19.
will they go like "wow impressive" or will they go like "game nerd, not worth of entering"?
Author:  nike52 [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My concerns about university
You won't fall behind in uni all because you didn't do well on those programming contests.

That 66% hurts your chances, but apply anyways.

I would pick UT as second choice.

It's not the end of the world if you don't get into UW.
Author:  ali_dada [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Hi Horus,

Well, it is one thing to have this nagging feeling inside of you about your capabilities and on the other hand the 'reputation craze' regarding the Universities.

My friend, just chill. Your average is very high and you are very intelligent. At high school you only took what - 2 or 3 programming related courses. Also remember, in each of those courses, you probably learnt half of the material you have yet to learn at a University.

Just come to Ryerson - it is too in Toronto and has a decent reputation - all the big companies like Microsoft or IBM, etc will hire you (provided you pass their interview).

The university only requires 70% average to get in and the teach programming from scratch.
Author:  Dan [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
DWITE is fun, educational and great practice for writing other contests.

However what it is not is a measure of your worth as a programmer or CS student. Most programming contest writing skills do not translate well to the real world or learning.

What you need to get in to university is to prove that you can learn, they don't except you know everything before you get there or to be the best contest writer in the world.

To be honest most university's don't look at much other then grades for undergrad and normally the requirement is just over 70% overall (and some times over 70% for each class) and that you have the required classes.

Things like additional information forums are only imporantent if you are close to the cut off point or for getting scholarships.

If you are worried about getting in, apply to many universitys, if you apply to all that you listed (you can apply to more then 3 if you pay more, i applied to 18 when i did it.) and keep an average about 70% in each coruse i say you have a 99% chance of getting in to at least one.

P.S. Almost all universitys have co-op programs that include big companys like IBM and RIM for computer sci. (At least lakehead does and if lakehead can do it....).
Author:  endless [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
well i'm in about the same situation as you average-wise, and i basically have no experience in programming besides some karel the robot stuff, haha. and well waterloo CS co op is my first choice, and i know what you mean about the mid 80's area. you have more extracurriculars than i do so you could probably gain a couple extra points with those.

i was at the open house and they really stressed that even with no experience in cs you can be just as successful. I have a friend there now and he says that it is extremely math intensive.

if it's any consolation, my backup is carleton; because of their co op rep (100% placement last year supposedly.)
Author:  Dan [ Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Many (if not all) universitys assume you have no CS or programming kownagle coming in will start you off with basic programming and consecpt courses.

Some universitys like waterloo have diffrent starting class options to get students to the same level for 2nd year. I blive waterloo has 3 diffrent levels of interdouction clases for students with no excpeice, some and alot.

[Shameless Lakehead Ad]
Also being a lakehead student i have to give them a plug. Lakehead acpectes most students with 70% or more and has a great co-op program and computer sci program. We are a small school so clases sizes are very small (for example i have had clases with less then 6 students). We are also priamly foucesed on undergrad studies so must of the funding goses there and there are chacnes for undergrad reasarch.
[/Shameless Lakehead ad]
Author:  Horus [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
thanks for the reply guys.

Waterloo is going to be my first choice, and I really want to go there, I know that waterloo is math intensive and that's another reason I prefer waterloo, because I like math.

since , every university have coop, I guess my 2nd choice would be Carleton for 100% coop rate which is better than other universities.

3rd choice would probably be UFT for high rep than all the other universities.

Sorry, Dan and ali_dada I'm not going to pick lakehead or Ryerson...

I'm not worried about my marks being too low for the other universities except for Waterloo. The reason i'm worried about Dwite is that it reflects my CCC mark. and that's what UW looks at, especially if you are on the edge.
Author:  endless [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
what i've been told about the math contests (COMC atleast) is that it wont have a negative influence, only if it is above average does it matter. I think it looks better to take a contest and be below average than not take it at all, especially for waterloo because it's their tests. I'm guessing this is the case with the computing contests too, so i wouldn't worry about that.

you might want to see if there is anything to be done about that english mark though, many uni's have a base level % in which your english should be which is generally 70. but it could be different in your case because your other marks must be pretty good to by over 80 av. with a 66. i'd still look into something though.
Author:  Horus [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
well, the reason I took summer school was because that summer school gives higher marks than regular schools.

but in the end I got 66%... UW doesn't have a base mark requirement for English in comp sci.

However if I retake english I will lose 1% on my overall avg when I apply to waterloo, that means 6% deduction in english. I doubt that I can get over 72% in regular if i only get 66% in summer school.

So i did not take English this year. (and that's the reason why my other marks are so high, cause English is the most time consuming course for me)
Author:  endless [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
i just checked, you're right. which leaves you in pretty good shape then for admission since they will be focusing on the math courses; that, matched with your programming experience.
Author:  CodeMonkey2000 [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Imo you should redo english. It is important, since it's more about your communication skills. Try to get it over 80, it will look good. Ask your teachers for help, or join peer tutoring or something.

And just because you did average on DWITE doesn't mean you will have a hard time in CS at UW. Contests usually go above and beyond the curriculum. People who do really well in contests are usually gifted, and have been practicing for a really long time. As long as you work hard, should should be able to keep up in university. University can't be that different from highschool.

Sigh, I'm in grade 12 too, and I worried about getting into university. I'm confident I will get in, but it's the 40 hours I'm worried about. I have 9 so far. At the beginning of the school year I didn't have enough credits to get a diploma, since a lot of my courses got canceled. So I'm applying with a tonne of science courses, and not many computer/math related courses Razz. I have exactly enough to graduate now, but my mark won't be high enough for scholarships. My average was above 85 for all of highschool except in grade 9 (stupid french).

Apparently it's good if you join a club or two. I joined ultimate Frisbee and chess. You seem to have great extracurricular experience, that should help you out a lot.

Good luck, and hope to see you next year at UW Very Happy.
Author:  Horus [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
it's too late for me to redo english, cause i'm already in gr12. and our school is a term school, not semester. (except for AFCALC)

I don't think high school english have anything to do with your communication skill or even literacy skill.

what we're learning in english is shakespeare, which have nothing to do with modern english. I really hate reading shakespeare stuff, it's outdated for like 200+years. I also hate the essay that we have to write. e.g: in gr 11 I have to write about is shakespeare sexist. and I don't like that topic at all. I had a private tutor (which my mom got for me and payed him $30/hour) My tutor used to be a high school teacher even after he edited the essay for me, I still got 60% on that essay. Basically because my english teacher doesn't like the idea from what I (and my tutor) wrote.
Author:  Tony [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
endless @ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:12 pm wrote:
since they will be focusing on the math courses; that, matched with your programming experience.

Admission will be focusing on English over Math; and programming experience is not a requirement. In fact, sometimes it might outright get in the way.
Author:  Horus [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Tony @ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:13 pm wrote:
endless @ Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:12 pm wrote:
since they will be focusing on the math courses; that, matched with your programming experience.

Admission will be focusing on English over Math; and programming experience is not a requirement. In fact, sometimes it might outright get in the way.


oh crap so you are saying i'm dead?
Author:  r691175002 [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My concerns about university
I am still in grade 12 myself but from what I have picked up from compsci.ca and while looking around at universities, unfortunately, English is one of the more important courses.

I am not completely sure on the intricacies of applying to WL however in general you apply with an average of 5 courses which must include english, math 30 and math 31. As well, not all option courses are allowed as part of the 5. A single 66 will knock an 80 average down 3 percent and a 90 average down 5 percent.
Author:  Tony [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
No, I'm just correcting the assumption that the program admission will concentrate on Math and Programming.

I doubt that any one factor, on its own, determines your admission. Though in your case raising your English mark will likely have a much bigger impact over scoring well in CCC/DWITE.

UW CS is "individual selection", so as a last resort you could try demonstrating your communication skills via other means (creative writing, blog, etc), and point towards that in your AIF. No guarantees, but if you feel that your English mark under-represents your abilities, it might be worth a shot.
Author:  Jack140 [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My concerns about university
From your perspective... Its sounds like we are in the same situation...
Here are some plans to help you (which kind of helped me)

1. First ask this question: What Am I good at, and what am I bad at? (Simply look over your report cards and organize from level 1 (50-60%) to level 4 (80-90%))

2. Then you can quickly skim over on the stuff you are good at... (maybe jot down the coarses your "good" at...Is it computer programming/software/hardware)

3. Next step is to find a college or universitity, that will be suitable for you (The appropriate courses)

4. After that, simply apply for that college or university (If the required university or collages wants a higher mark then your kind stuck there, Unless there are more schools around the area)

5. Your set...

I am not sure if that helped you or not...
Author:  Horus [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Tony @ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:40 pm wrote:

UW CS is "individual selection", so as a last resort you could try demonstrating your communication skills via other means (creative writing, blog, etc), and point towards that in your AIF. No guarantees, but if you feel that your English mark under-represents your abilities, it might be worth a shot.


um... can I submit an essay in my AIF, i can write a great essay about how useless high school english is.

other than that, for communication skill, I guess I can teach. I can ask my computer teacher's permission to teach gr 11 comp sci or sth. Or I can become a swimming instructor, all i have to do is take a 1-2 week course, except i'm kinda busy right now.
Author:  CodeMonkey2000 [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Umm, the point of the AIF is to impress them by showing off your accomplishments. And I like english.
Author:  Horus [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
so... can I put an essay in my AIF?
Author:  endless [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
i've applied to waterloo already and have access to the AIF that is to be filled out. i suppose you could send it by paper, attaching the printed essay, or even mention that you could show an example of english skill through an essay upon request. possibly opt to take waterloo's english precise test if you are confident you could do well on it?

just a few suggestions that may be of some use.
Author:  Horus [ Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
what? how could u apply already?

I still need to wait for the PIN that's going to be send to our school. It's suppose to be send here by either end of November or early December, but our school haven't received yet.
Author:  endless [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My concerns about university
i got my pin number from our school like almost a month ago haha. must of been one of the first schools.
Author:  CodeMonkey2000 [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
We got ours last week. I applied a few days ago, and I'm waiting for a response from waterloo. We do the AIF this early? I thought we do it in March :S
Author:  endless [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
what i understand is that once you have received the confirmation email and your waterloo id you can fill it out, and it is suggested you send it within 3 weeks of the confirmation. but there is a deadline for it that may be in march. too bad we (for the most part) wont find out if we are accepted to waterloo until after euclid in april.
Author:  CodeMonkey2000 [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Hmm, so what's on the AIF? Do they ask for marks?
Author:  endless [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
quite similar to the original application we filled out on ouac, with a few extra spots for experience, etc. you actually have to fill out your own 12 u/m courses and your marks (are they trying to catch people in a lie?)

there is a spot for academic awards, and another for non-academic awards, there is a chart for things that you have put time into (eg. volunteering, sports...) also a spot for work experience.

and an about me section where you just say anything you want.

i have to go for class, ill be back at lunch and mention any thing i missed
Author:  endless [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
back, there is also a section that your advanced functions teacher fills out and sends to waterloo, aswell as a spot where you state competitions you have participated in and the score on the contest.

i got my confirmation last thursday (day after) so maybe they only do it once a week.
Author:  Horus [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Ok, our school just got the PIN today. I can't get it today though cause I didn't bring my student ID, gonna get it tmr.

Anyways is there space in the AIF to write an essay?

and what? how am I suppose to submit my marks?

I haven't got the first term report card yet, but our teacher already gave us the unofficial mark we're gonna receive (though they might change it later)
Author:  endless [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
i guess what it comes down to is they let you decide the courses marks to use for the non prerequisites.

i'm not sure you should put an essay in the general part, but like i said, it may be best to print the AIF and send it in with an essay.
Author:  Horus [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
just another question, you don't have to fill in gr 9,10,11 marks right?

cause if I do i'm dead, I have an average of like low 70s overall in those 3 grades. (I was just being lazy)
Author:  Tony [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
You don't fill out your marks -- your school sends them for you.

Grade 11 marks are typically included, because you don't have enough of 12th grade completed at the time of the application.
Author:  Horus [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
really?

but i'm in a term school, the only first term mark they won't see for gr 12 is calculus (because it's semester, i have to take advanced function first)

oh crap my 70% avg...

my gr 11 mark is like (around)
75 in math
75 in comp sci
66 in english
80 in physics
75 in accounting
75 in TDJ
68 in law
Author:  endless [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
through ouac it has many if not all gr. 11 courses, though i doubt it has much leverage on your acceptance.

i don't know, you'll soon see what i mean by the filling out your own courses/ marks from gr. 12.
Author:  SJ [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
endless @ Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:51 am wrote:
...there is also a section that your advanced functions teacher fills out and sends to waterloo...


does it HAVE to be my advanced functions teacher? can it be my comp sci teacher instead?
Author:  endless [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
pretty sure it has to be a math teacher. and generally most people are in adv. functions now, so that is the suggestion.
Author:  Horus [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
well i can kinda explain for my failures in gr 11:
I didn't hand in one of the major assignment for comp sci (it's not really my fault, my parents were bitching about me being on the computer all the time) my first term compsci mark in gr 11 was 94.

for math, I came in half an hour late during the final exam, and so I failed the exam....

well the other course doesn't really matter cause i doubt that university cares.

my adv function teacher loves me, but she sucks at english though, I wonder what they will say when they see my math teacher's writing...

I have some questions:
I have already made up my mind of these 3 universities being my top 3:

waterloo, toronto, carleton.

waterloo is my first choice. So if I get accepted for waterloo, i'll go there for sure.

but the thing is I don't know what I would choose if I get accepted for both toronto and carleton and not waterloo, which one should I go to? Toronto for reputation or carleton for 100% coop? and what's the coop rate for toronto?
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Tony @ 2008-11-24, 4:39 pm wrote:
You don't fill out your marks -- your school sends them for you.

For the AIF, you do write your marks in, but for general admission purposes, they use the marks sent by your school later on. Also, IIRC, you don't have space to write an essay, but who knows. For sure, though, having some essay writing award or something along those lines could remedy a bad English mark.

Horus wrote:
Toronto for reputation or carleton for 100% coop? and what's the coop rate for toronto?

U of T doesn't have co-op. Instead, they have a 'Professional Experience Year' that amounts to something similar, though you work continuously for something like 12 or more months rather than in terms.
Author:  CodeMonkey2000 [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Tony @ Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:39 pm wrote:
You don't fill out your marks -- your school sends them for you.

Grade 11 marks are typically included, because you don't have enough of 12th grade completed at the time of the application.

So I fill out the rest of it, and leave the marks section? Why do they even have a marks section if your school sends them out anyway?
Author:  Horus [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Gandalf wrote:
Horus wrote:
Toronto for reputation or carleton for 100% coop? and what's the coop rate for toronto?

U of T doesn't have co-op. Instead, they have a 'Professional Experience Year' that amounts to something similar, though you work continuously for something like 12 or more months rather than in terms.


there is coop in UFT:

i checked on einfo,
Co-op Computer Science
University of Toronto Scarborough
OUAC Program Code

TSC
Degree

* Bachelor of Science (BSc)
Location (city, region)

Toronto
Grade Range

High 70s to low 80s
Is co-op available?

Co-op program
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Ah you're right, but that only applies to the Scarborough campus. My bad.

PS. Well done on the successful quote, you have succeeded where many have failed. Wink
Author:  Horus [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Gandalf @ Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:25 pm wrote:
Ah you're right, but that only applies to the Scarborough campus. My bad.

PS. Well done on the successful quote, you have succeeded where many have failed. Wink


lol @ success quote... I actually had to edit it...

and oh, I just find out something:

carleton have only 58% of the graduates employeed. I'm going to take out carleton as my 3rd choice and add in macmaster (91% of the graduates employeed)
Author:  Jack140 [ Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Horus @ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:12 pm wrote:
it's too late for me to redo english, cause i'm already in gr12. and our school is a term school, not semester. (except for AFCALC)

I don't think high school english have anything to do with your communication skill or even literacy skill.

what we're learning in english is shakespeare, which have nothing to do with modern english. I really hate reading shakespeare stuff, it's outdated for like 200+years. I also hate the essay that we have to write. e.g: in gr 11 I have to write about is shakespeare sexist. and I don't like that topic at all. I had a private tutor (which my mom got for me and payed him $30/hour) My tutor used to be a high school teacher even after he edited the essay for me, I still got 60% on that essay. Basically because my english teacher doesn't like the idea from what I (and my tutor) wrote.


I totally agree with you Horus...
All we pretty much do in school is that lame old boring shakespear stuff... (Its interesting to see what it was like speaking that way, but its just simply boring)
I personally think its useless (I mean who would speak, something like "art thou thy quisp" No one will understand you....
In addition, I believe that our government is not making the proper decisions... We should speak like normal civilized people (or modern people)
Our language has evolved quite significantly over the past years (centuries), I don't understand why we would should go back to the "stone age"...
That languages is not significant... Especially if we are trying to communicate to other people in the work place...
As long as you pass with a high mark in this stuff, then I guess you will be able to apply for a job.
Author:  endless [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Horus @ Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:51 pm wrote:

and oh, I just find out something:

carleton have only 58% of the graduates employeed. I'm going to take out carleton as my 3rd choice and add in macmaster (91% of the graduates employeed)


may i ask where you got 58% from? it could be for the whole university, whereas 100% of the comp sci students enrolled in co op were accepted.
Author:  jbking [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Horus @ Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:12 pm wrote:
it's too late for me to redo english, cause i'm already in gr12. and our school is a term school, not semester. (except for AFCALC)

I don't think high school english have anything to do with your communication skill or even literacy skill.

what we're learning in english is shakespeare, which have nothing to do with modern english. I really hate reading shakespeare stuff, it's outdated for like 200+years. I also hate the essay that we have to write. e.g: in gr 11 I have to write about is shakespeare sexist. and I don't like that topic at all. I had a private tutor (which my mom got for me and payed him $30/hour) My tutor used to be a high school teacher even after he edited the essay for me, I still got 60% on that essay. Basically because my english teacher doesn't like the idea from what I (and my tutor) wrote.


<rant mode>
In some ways I'll disagree with the "high school English having anything to do with my communication skill or even literacy skill" where in Grade 10 I had a teacher that finally could explain to me how to write an essay properly; what was the algorithm for that so that I could go from getting ~60% on an assignment to ~90% because I had used the proper structure for how to give my arguements on something. Granted that kind of teacher is likely rare these days, there are likely a few good ones out there.

There is the general question of beyond basic proficiency what should be taught next; which applies both in language and in other areas like Mathematics. Once you get beyond basic Real numbers that one can add, subtract, multiply and divide, what should be taught next? Geometry, algebra, or calculus all rely somewhat on those 4 original operators but can grow the complexity of what one can visualize and then one can add in other concepts like Combinatorics, Optimization, Graph Theory, Statistics and functions which makes things even more interesting for some; for others who cares about what are the chances of winning at craps? I believe a similar line exists within English for most of North America except for Quebec where French may be the dominant language. After you can write in a paragraph what should be the next challenge? What useful examples could one study and examine to see how well this worked or didn't work? Shakespeare may seem to be in a different language, but most of his tricks on the language aren't that different from songs today where new terms can be coined as well as words having contradictory meanings, e.g. if I call someone a dog, is that an insult or a compliment? I've often heard that "All men are dogs" used in generally a derogatory way but yet one could see Randy Jackson on American Idol calling someone "You're my dog!" and this is a huge compliment to the person.
</rant mode>
Author:  Horus [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
endless @ Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:35 pm wrote:
Horus @ Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:51 pm wrote:

and oh, I just find out something:

carleton have only 58% of the graduates employeed. I'm going to take out carleton as my 3rd choice and add in macmaster (91% of the graduates employeed)


may i ask where you got 58% from? it could be for the whole university, whereas 100% of the comp sci students enrolled in co op were accepted.


yea it's for the whole university.

my source:
http://www.topuniversities.com/schools/data/school_profile/default/carletonuniversity
click on school stats

I know it's 100% coop rate but i wonder what kind of coop job u get? Maybe it's some crappy job that you'll get paid for like $10/hour. I mean it's impossible for 100% of the students to be in good coop company right?


and for english, there's so many more options available:
Like how do you write a resume, business letter, and even a contract.
I know resume is covered in career class, but doesn't it make more sense to just put it in english class?
These skills are much more important to be applied in RL compare to old fashion Shakespeare (unless you can travel 200 years back in time).
Author:  endless [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
oh, so essentially, 58% of just graduated students have a spot of employment waiting for them? i thought we were talking about just co op, about your question of quality of co op spots, i would think carleton; being in ottawa, there would be many technology etc. companies involved.
Author:  Horus [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
endless @ Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:44 pm wrote:
oh, so essentially, 58% of just graduated students have a spot of employment waiting for them? i thought we were talking about just co op, about your question of quality of co op spots, i would think carleton; being in ottawa, there would be many technology etc. companies involved.


basically 58% of the graduates find a job within 6 month after graduation.

Other universities such as UW, UFT, McMaster have 90%+ graduation rate.

Carleton seems pretty low compared to these universities.
Author:  endless [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
yea, i wonder why though, being in a larger city than most. i also wonder how highly i should regard this stat, since it will be another 4-5 years until we reach that stage.
Author:  Tony [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Horus @ Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:24 pm wrote:
I know it's 100% coop rate but i wonder what kind of coop job u get?

Whatever you are capable of getting yourself hired for. Though because it's a number that apparently sells to students (it being brought up here), the method of calculating that number would be a more interesting question. Sometimes it's the percentage of eligible students earning a co-op credit that they require.

If volunteering for a fraction of the term completes your requirement and you earn a credit for the experience -- you count towards the statistic.

If it's your first year and you did not get a credit towards the "5 credits in 6 terms" requirement -- then you don't count towards the statistic.

The bottom line is that "100% coop rate" does not mean that you are guaranteed a position. And 95% does not mean that you'll get hired for 19 of the 20 jobs you apply to.
Author:  Dan [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Horus @ 25th November 2008, 10:24 pm wrote:

my source:
http://www.topuniversities.com/schools/data/school_profile/default/carletonuniversity
click on school stats


I find this static very hard to blive and the source questable at best.

Stats form the university it's self show empoyment rates closer to 90-100% for 2 years and 87.5%-100% for 6 months in 2005

Source: http://oirp.carleton.ca/cudo/htmlSectionK.html
Author:  Horus [ Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Dan @ Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:04 pm wrote:
Horus @ 25th November 2008, 10:24 pm wrote:

my source:
http://www.topuniversities.com/schools/data/school_profile/default/carletonuniversity
click on school stats


I find this static very hard to blive and the source questable at best.

Stats form the university it's self show empoyment rates closer to 90-100% for 2 years and 87.5%-100% for 6 months in 2005

Source: http://oirp.carleton.ca/cudo/htmlSectionK.html


wow this did change my view about carleton, however knowing that your source is from carleton itself, they'll most likely putting up higher numbers than the actual one.

I don't know how accurate my source is, but it's probably not biased. I'll research more about employment rate before i make 3rd choice for university.

(McMaster is kinda for IT rather than comp sci) (Queen's no freedom of speech) (Carleton might have low employment rate) this is so hard to decide....
Author:  Dan [ Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Horus @ 25th November 2008, 11:36 pm wrote:

wow this did change my view about carleton, however knowing that your source is from carleton itself, they'll most likely putting up higher numbers than the actual one.


University's in Canada are public, and they get funding based on data from theses kinds of reports and as such would be in an extrema amount of trouble for faking any of the data.

The report this is from is the CUDO (Common University Data Ontario) and is a standaized report that almost all Univeristys do and it's hole point is to be used as an unbaised comprason of University's in Ontario. You can find out more about it here: http://www.cou.on.ca/_bin/relatedSites/cudo.cfm

It's proably the most acurite and unbasied data you can esaily find and compare.

Horus @ 25th November 2008, 11:36 pm wrote:

I don't know how accurate my source is, but it's probably not biased. I'll research more about employment rate before i make 3rd choice for university.


Your source lists the Average Domestic Student Fees in EURs and the rest of the values in USD and almost all the values are wrong when compared to the values from Carleton (some on your source even make Carleton look better then it is). It also says Carleton only has one department.

I am not saying to apply to Carleton or not just if you are going to make a decision about a university make sure the source you are using is a vaild and check on there facts.
Author:  FreshPrince [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Not that I mean to bring this thread back up or anything...I was just looking around and saw what Dan wrote about the CUDO site.

UOIT's admission average for the Bachelor's of Info Tech program is listed as 70s but people got in to that program and many others with less than the required average...that confuses me. The total of arts programs with people below 70% was something crazy like 11%. How does that happen?

And if I have an average of 71 (super embarrassing i know), do I have any reason to be worried? (Minimum average was 70%) and most people accepted had averages between 70-74% according to CUDO. Oh and it says they have enrolment of 60 people but I know that number is always understated. And is there any guesses as to how many people get early acceptances by the university? My friend got in to this program with a 74% average.

I'm super stressed, so any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Author:  Dan [ Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Admission averages are offten not the same as your average for your last year of high school. They only take in to account certent credits and on top of that universities noramly take other factors in to account witch effects the students admission average. For example waterloo has the AIF witch can add to the admisions average and they add or remove % points based on what high school you went to.

Also many schools may still offer admisions for averages under the cut off but have special conditions that go along with them like you have to keep a 70%+ average for your first year or you have to take or retake somthing in summer school.

Finaly that number could be the excpected cut off point but if they get less applications they could lower it to fill all the spaces. In the same way they could rase it if they get greater amount of applications then they expected.
Author:  FreshPrince [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:My concerns about university
Can people that have just below the required average expect to get a conditional offer BEFORE the deadline of May 28? Or do they only get in if there is more space available after May 28?
Author:  Dan [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
FreshPrince @ 29th March 2009, 5:30 pm wrote:
Can people that have just below the required average expect to get a conditional offer BEFORE the deadline of May 28? Or do they only get in if there is more space available after May 28?


Thats up to the university about when they send out the offers. I have seen people get conditional offers that say they have to keep there average above 70% in first year if they had lower then the required average but again thats totally up the university and it changes every year, how many are applying for that program and how much space they have.

I would say it is unlikey to get in after the deadline but that is just a guse not based on much.
Author:  BigBear [ Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Dan @ Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:34 pm wrote:


If you are worried about getting in, apply to many universitys, if you apply to all that you listed (you can apply to more then 3 if you pay more, i applied to 18 when i did it.) and keep an average about 70% in each coruse i say you have a 99% chance of getting in to at least one.


I find it interesting that you applied to 18 and none of them were Waterloo
Author:  FreshPrince [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:My concerns about university
Dan @ Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:55 pm wrote:
FreshPrince @ 29th March 2009, 5:30 pm wrote:
Can people that have just below the required average expect to get a conditional offer BEFORE the deadline of May 28? Or do they only get in if there is more space available after May 28?


Thats up to the university about when they send out the offers. I have seen people get conditional offers that say they have to keep there average above 70% in first year if they had lower then the required average but again thats totally up the university and it changes every year, how many are applying for that program and how much space they have.

I would say it is unlikey to get in after the deadline but that is just a guse not based on much.


Does this happen often to people that are just below?...like 1-2%. Oh and this is midterm marks for second semester I'm talking about, not final. So does that increase my chances of getting accepted? And does the application still be considered if the average lower than the cutoff? I just read somewhere that the university does not consider applicants who are below cutoff.

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