Computer Science Canada

Help Please
Author:  implosion [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Help Please
hi, so next year i'm going into Gr. 12 and i'm not sure if i'm going to take a victory lap. also i'm not 100% sure of what i want to take for a career but right now I'm assuming Computer Engineer and i was wondering what kind of marks i would need to get into Waterloo or McMaster (that's what i'm thinking of, more for Waterloo). Next year i'm taking: Advanced Functions, Calculus and Vectors, Chemistry, Physics, English, Computer Information Science, Computer Engineering and accounting. this year my marks were Math: 79, English: 76, Chem + Physics: 70 and my computer marks were 84. also this is going to sound like a really stupid question but when after graduating as a computer engineer... where would i work, like at ibm or something ? and what kind of daily tasks would i do ?
Author:  Tony [ Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
Most Universities publish their expected cut-off marks for each discipline. Check with the Universities you are interested in. I would think that Engineering is typically in the 80s. Keep in mind that your admission is also influenced by the contents of the "Additional Information Form" (AIF at UWaterloo, might be called differently elsewhere).

There's an article on more information on Computer Engineering, that you might find useful.
Author:  implosion [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Thanks that was a bit of help... but on [url]electronicinfo.ca [/url] it says there looking at "Individual selection from the mid-80s." but on this other site that my guidance counselor gave me myblueprint.ca it says that its cut off mark was 70%. As well according to my marks... what would be the odds of me getting into either.. waterloo, mcmaster or toronto and how tough is the math + science in gr. 12 compared to gr.11 cuz i heard that calculus & vectors was the hardest course in our school "apparently". also how much does the co-op pay for computer engineering ?... because in the 5 years its gonna cost me 100 000ish.. which i only have 10 000 for right now.... i know this is going to sound really stupid but could you explain to me a pratical day for a computer engineer / programmer (daily - hourly activities + routine)... im just confused... Confused
Author:  DemonWasp [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
I can't speak for UToronto or McMaster, as I'm a UWaterloo student (I didn't even apply to McMaster, though I did apply to Toronto...just in Engineering Science).

The cutoff for UWaterloo CS isn't terribly high (high 70s, I think), though the CE cutoff is probably somewhat higher (they are not the same program or material). To have a better chance of getting in, improve your English, Math, and (science of your choice) marks (as I recall, these always factor towards the final percentage UW sees - that's their policy).

Math and science do get more challenging in grade 12, but it's a fairly small increase. The increase from grade 12 to university can be substantially larger. Don't avoid taking courses now because they may be hard: take them now so they're easier later. If you are going into a computer-related field you WILL NEED calculus and vectors (you probably won't be able to get in without those courses, and even if you did, it'd be hard).

Coop pays quite well in many cases. I can only speak to the CS program (which tends to pay the best, out of all coop programs), and my numbers are like this:
- work and school alternate terms
- approximate pay per 4-month work term (1st-3rd work terms): $10,000-$13,000
- approximate cost of the next term of school: $5000-$5500 (tuition + books + transport, not counting food and residence, which can add another $2000 fairly easily).
- I graduate with a positive amount of cash.

Also: note that Google Is Your Friend: http://www.cecs.uwaterloo.ca/students/prospective/ should tell you a whole lot about co-op at UW. Specifically, the links on this page: http://www.cecs.uwaterloo.ca/students/salary.php should give you a fair idea of what coop students get paid (expect that CS / CE courses will be somewhat above the average in their bracket).

I won't say my day is typical, but it goes something like this:
(School Term)
Drag my sorry carcass out of bed (10am).
Blur through my morning routine (10am-11am).
Bike to first class (4km), arrive late, curse the Gods for my own laziness.
Spend the spare hour after that class trying to make sense of it (bring Advil and headset for this step; 12pm-1pm).
Go to more classes, until the day is over at 3:30.
Return home, spend much of the evening working on various assignments; accomplish all the "easy" questions, then realise there's another side to the problem-set, curse the Gods some more (4-11pm).
Spend leftover time playing videogames (11-2am)
Realise it's 2am and I have class at 11am; immediately become comatose.

(Work Term)
Drag my sorry carcass out of bed (8am).
Blur through my morning routine (8-9am); bike to work (4km).
Go to work. Follow supervisor's instructions, if she has any. (9-5)
Go home, play videogames for a while (5:30-7).
Get bored of games, work on my own coding projects for a few hours. (8pm-1am)
Become distracted by something shiny, lose interest. (1am-2am)
Realise it's 2am and I have work at 9am; immediately become comatose.
Author:  changturkey [ Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
I have a friend going in to Comp.Eng. at UWaterloo, I think he had an 86 AVG.
Author:  implosion [ Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
i might be able to pull off an average of 86... though my science marks are really crap (but i can pull em up) and i suck at english.. aha, good to know that co - op pays that much.. almost half of how much i need for the year.. how much could i sell my books for ?... ps. you only go to school for 3 hours... isn't computer science / engineer really heavy in math / physics / chemistry ? a distant friend got into waterloo.. and he has like 3 hours of physics then an hour of math.. etc.

ps. LOL @ " curse the Gods for my own laziness "

but what i meant by daily activities was after graduating and becoming something in computer science / engineer ... thats what a bit hazy... i kinda get what'd i do.. but. ugm.. yea
Author:  StealthArcher [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
Calculus and Vectors should be easy if you work at all. I loafed my ass off in my final year and got an 85. Chem12U I missed 1 1/2 months of classes over the sem., got ~20 on two tests. Aced the exam with a 96, and wound up with 87. It' not too hard, just make sure to 'study', not memorize temporarily.
Author:  DemonWasp [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
A CS major at UWaterloo takes 5 classes per term. Usually, there are three that are an hour each M/W/F, and two that are 90 minutes each Tu/Th...three hours a day of class. Of course, you could have 4 classes that are 1hr M/W/F, but it's less common. Whatever you get, it's a good bet they won't be contiguous though.

Don't be fooled by the low amount of class time...you still have tutorials and labs to go to (depending on what courses you take, of course), and you still have problem sets to do every week or so (for most of the courses that matter)...those consume a lot of time.

And yes, most of my classes now are either math or computer science. I'm taking a lot of physics too, but that's my choice (you don't need a whole lot of physics in CS); I happen to be pretty good at physics (98% final in grade 12).

After graduation, there are a lot of different paths you could follow. As a CS major, the obvious choice is a programming job (there are an awful lot of positions available), but you could also get a research position if you wanted to continue at university. As a CE major, then you may be looking towards working at a hardware company, though I can't really elaborate because I'm not clear where the CE's end up. The variety of jobs may be surprising: everywhere from Google to the major banks to database companies to Microsoft, to...etc; you will find that there are literally hundreds if not thousands of software groups you haven't even heard of.

Your daily activities then would be a 9-5 job with occasional overtime...in most cases. Some places may give you "flex hours" so you can choose to shift your day around a bit. It becomes a lot less boring if you're interested in what you're working on.

* Note: at UW there's a program called "Software Engineering" (aka the softies) which is a bit of a merge of the Math (CS) and Engineering (CE) faculties.
Author:  iluvchairs112 [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
Definitely you'll want a mid 80 average. My friend got into UW for engineering (I believe SE but I am not completely sure) and he had an 85-86 avg. However his english mark: 75. Make sure all your marks are above 80 though, especially advanced functions & calc. As long as your english is above 70 and your other marks are quite a bit better (esp math courses) then you should be fine.

if you're leaning towards engineering, your physics & chem need to be higher (similar to math marks). if you're leaning towards computer science, your computer science mark needs to be higher, like your math marks. as well as a couple other electives that will raise your avg (computer engineering or something math related or even a science like physics or chem, just to prove you can lol).

good luck Smile
Author:  changturkey [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
And if you don't get in to Waterloo it's not the end of the world either.
Author:  implosion [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
yeah. its true... i also said mcmaster or Toronto... but the only one to respond the most to help me was DemonWasp and he's from UW... but yeah... i'm aiming really hard to get into waterloo... kinda weird.. because i'm not 100% sure of what i want to do... but so far i'm kinda guess computer engineering. What is Calculus.. i know what vectors is. My friends sister was in it and she dropped out within the week because she said it was too hard? See my problem that is when it comes to tests / quiz / exams i just blank out ... like on my math exam (gr.11) i had an 80 and then on my exam i have no clue but i got a 70% on it and i thought it was suupperr easy.. i was really confident. My computer science / engineering courses are going to be really easy to get a 90 in because all of our test / quiz's are open book... yet our exam isn't... kinda effed us over. could someone elaborate more on a comptuer engineer / programmer (Science) ??.. places to work (besides obv. ibm, microsoft) (ps. is there any microsoft place around here... i know there is an ibm in toronto.. i think).
ps. how long is the job security.. i was on workopolis and most of the contracts i've seen were for like 6 months.
Author:  changturkey [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Dunno about the jobs, but yeah it seems like alot of users on here go to or have been at UWaterloo. I heard that (don't hold me on this) if you are decent enough at physics (which you should be for engineering anyways), Calc&Vec shouldn't be too hard. I am taking Grade 12 Physics before Calc&Vec so I am somewhat in the same situation as you. I know what you mean by blanking out on tests, fortunately that doesn't really happen to me, it's more of procrastination and well, bad math teacher.
Author:  implosion [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
yeah, i just saw your post.. kinda in the same situation... though i'm really not keen on taking a victory lap... i don't know why but i'm just taking it as a negative thing.. even though i know its not... also i'm taking its gonna be awkward to be the only gr.13 in a gr.12 science class... aha.. i'm a pretty quiet guy. aha procrastination, i know what you mean... my math teachers are just plain creepy.. and my science teachers.. aha they go by everything soo fast then your scared to go in for extra help... this year i'm gonna have to suck it in.... i love math and science... but its just applying them lol ... for physics on our exam we already have all of the formulas and constants... so i guess that will be really helpful, though i'm not sure how many there will be... now i'm looking into software engineering ... though i still can't decide..
Author:  Tony [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
Calculus is about dividing things by zero -- limits, areas under graph.

As for places to work -- just about everywhere. A lot of large corporations develop their own internal software. Did you know that Toronto hospitals (well, the ones that are part of the UHN anyway) are building (have build already?) their own fiber-optical network? Apparently it's cheaper to halt downtown Toronto traffic and dig up the streets, than to have their data moved by existing utility companies. There is a lot of tech innovation and development going on there.

Wallmart's foundation lays in software.

The Dark Knight came with its own software unit, with something like 12 people. (or so I figured from actually staying through the credits.)

workopolis is not the place to go looking for a job. I get more interesting job opportunities in my email inbox (like actually technical jobs, I'm not referring to spam), than are listed on workopolis. Also, a "contract" is not the same as full-time employment.
Author:  implosion [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Yeah, still the job area seems a bit awkward to me... has anyone heard of S.A.P.. my cousin works for a job hiring company and she said that is a really good area of IT to get into but she never really explained it to me and i suck at researching. Also i heard from other people that when some people decide to go into computer engineering in university they don't realize what there getting into then end up dropping it. Also in a hypothetical situation, lets say i just hit all 80s in my courses... would i still have a chance to get into waterloo, mcmaster, or toronto ? and having computer information science and engineer help my chance of getting in since some other schools in the area don't offer the course ?
Author:  Zeroth [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Those people that have problems with courses? They're in it for money. Or they assumed that University would be like High School. Its not. Your hand is not held. So my advice is go into whatever area interests you the most. Typically as an elective the university will offer a couple of computer engineering style courses, and if you enjoy those, you can switch your major.

You don't need to decided now.

SAP is huge. They used to be one of the biggest software companies of the 70's and 80's IIRC(Of course Btiffin likely knows better than I do). Or, you could be meaning the protocol... specify, please. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP)

Here's what you need to do: go talk to your counselors. They'll know the admission standards for each of your schools, and they'll know best what you need to do. Not us. Would you go talk to the elephant trainer about how to become an acrobat in a circus?

Of course, the key advice is: Do what you enjoy the most. Don't worry about money. Don't worry about what people are hiring for. Do not. Because what companies hire for inevitably changes. And it is better to understand the basics, and be able to learn whats needed, than to focus on one specific area of the industry;odds are, that education will be obsolete by the time you graduate. Instead... learn how to learn. Most valuable skill you can bring from university.
Author:  implosion [ Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Yeah okay, that's one of my problems... i didn't realize that once i got into university that i could switch my majors.. from like computer engineering to software engineering or something like that... my guidance councilor wasn't a ton of help. i asked him a bunch of questions and all he really said was that its different between schools (duh). But i kind of want to decide right now of what i want to do (i'm the kind of person where i need to see where i'm going before i'll move) because i want to get it done in one shot.

SAP i don't even know a ton about... my cousin works with an agency that hires people and she said that in the IT area if i want to make a money i should check out SAP. I don't have any computer classes untill next semester and we just got a new tech. teacher.. so i have to find him and ask him a bunch of questions (but i'm shy guy.. crap).

Would anyone know what McMaster, Toronto or UW weigh on you if you take a class over again ?

and to zeroth, my interests are in computers (haha, duh) but i don't know where i would go in the field.. such a broad range, and lets just say i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. i know all the different kinds.. but thats about it.. i don't know much detail of it. (eg. computer engineering.. i think of building parts, making faster CPU, working on a team etc.)

i know everyone says don't worry about the money and do what you want (which i am, just a bit confused) but i want to make around the $100 000 (doesnt everyone, haha) for some personal reasons and i want to do a ton of charity in Pakistan (where im from).

and how hard is Calculus? ... gr.11 i got a 79 in math (university)
Author:  Zeroth [ Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Well, if you live in the area of these universities, you can go right down and ask them yourself.

Here's the thing: You can't always know where your going, especially in IT/Computer Science. Things change, things happen, courses get shuffled around, teachers switch schools. Being rigid in your plans will never help you. Be adaptable and flexible. Have a general goal, then work towards it.

Money: Like I said, don't worry about the money. Worry about finding something you do enjoy; odds are, you will be good at it. Just because you took four, five, six, or eight years of schooling does NOT entitle you to a $100k job though. Nothing entitles you to anything else. You can have a desire to make that much, but you should never feel thats what you must make. Because you'll never be happy with anything but. And if you make $100k a year, well, you'll need to get an accountant, and hopefully the accountant can save you from paying over $40k in taxes iirc. Sometimes making more money doesn't make you richer. Wink

Just be willing to adapt, be willing to learn, and learn to be happy, and you'll do well. The people that flame out in university are the ones that think this is their only chance, and that they are entitled to $100k salary when they graduate, and that see University as just an obstacle. Its not.
Author:  jbking [ Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
This may have been said before but there are a number of different areas within IT that one can work from a Computer Science/Computer Engineering/Software Engineering side:

1) Software Development - Making software which can range from PC or console games to business applications to all kinds of other stuff. SAP if you are talking about the big German company is known for what is called Enterprise Resource Planning, e.g. financial, inventory management, and forecasting to name just a few parts, though there are also other areas like Customer Relationship Management or Content Management systems.

2) Databases - The folks that manage all the data out there whether it be in big data warehouses using Business Intelligence or data mining techniques to simple little Microsoft Access databases to get some basic stuff done.

3) Networks - how computers talk to each other is its own big field where there are load balancers, firewalls and other hardware to play with in how all these computers get wired together.

4) Security - This is its own field I think that you could be looking at what kinds of policies should a company have, what software to use to enforce such policies, etc. though there is also the hacking side of things here.

5) Hardware development - Look at Microsoft's new blue lit mice though I'm sure there will be other new things out in the next few years as netbooks grow and microchips keep on shrinking.

6) Tech support/help desk - Enjoy solving someone else's headaches? Then this could be another area to get into. Sometimes these are also the system administrators in some companies if there aren't too many other things to fix.

7) Theoretical computer science - This would be more limited to academic circles but I'd think some of the biggest names in research do make a nice salary out there. Stuff like the P = NP or finding other NP-complete problems would be examples here. Encryption may be something else that has some theoretical aspects to it in terms of what complexity is required to break various methods to encode data.

8) Mathematical applications. Here you'd have stuff like Matlab and Maple for a couple of software programs that handle numbers rather differently where one uses floating point while the other may try to maintain as much precision as possible, e.g. not using an approximation of pi but just leave the letter in the answer to some expression to evaluate.

This is without mentioning other things like making websites, virtualization, web services, cloud computing or operating systems that are still big things getting developed out here in this world.

Calculus isn't that hard if you can crunch some numbers, remember a few theorems and work on a few limits.

http://www.gummy-stuff.org/ has some calculus tutorials I think that may shed some light on the mysteries that are derivatives, integrals and series.

JB
Author:  implosion [ Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
Yeah, i don't live near any close university except Toronto which is about 45 mins / 1 hour drive.

And yeah, i always love to learn (That's what i want to go into the computer field) since technology is always changing; constantly updated your skills.

Yeah i know that i'm not entitled to make 100K ... but its like i said, i have a ton of charity projects to do that i want to be able to accomplish when i'm older ... but whatever i see that i shouldn't be holding on to the 100K and be really stuborn about it.

so this is what i'm thinking of doing (any comments). I'm going to try and apply to universities for Computer Engineering... and then take it the first year.. then see if i can possibly switch into computer science / software engineering ?

Also... could i get into video games (anything) with any of these things Also what is the difference between Computer Programmer and Software Engineer... isn't it basically the same (from what i see)?

And does anyone know if McMaster, Toronto, Waterloo care if i take a victory lap because i did realllllyyyy crappy job in any of my subjects... because if i don't get above 80 - 85% in my subjects i'm planning to re-do them in a victory lap ??

and thank you jbking for that calculus site, much appreciated ! -- and for the list your wrote, it helped a bit... but i'm still a bit confused... (i'm not the smartest guy. haha)


P.S does anyone know about University of Alberta ... my parents want to move there and i really don't want to because the research i've done on it so far says it has hardly any computer courses ??
Author:  Roman [ Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
I'm not really entitled to give programming advice, given my personal lack of skills, but...

If the program you want to get into has a 70% requirement, will you only get 70% and stop trying? I'm of the opinion that one should do the best they can (and better) regardless of what's required of them, because if you do "just enough" the 100k job is very unlikely Wink

However, for admission averages and other such info you can go on University sites, student forums, and everything inbetween. Your school should also have university booklets (if not, go to University Fair) with rough admission averages listed. And if you're feeling lazy, just throw an e-mail at the university in question and they'll likely point you to a page on their site.

Either way, you should do your best (not limited to school) and get as good as you can. Doing whatever you do well is a good habit to have =) If you want to make 100k and give to charity, that's an excellent goal. And the only person who can make it come true is you. And the only way you can accomplish your goals (given they're ambitious) is to be the very best you can be.

Lastly, try not to so unconfident Wink Comments like "I'm not the smartest guy" etc. can have a bad effect subconsciously.

-RZ
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Help Please
Last I checked, University of Alberta had one of the best CS programs in Canada, especially for AI. They have a game research group, and have done a number of pretty impressive things, such as the world's strongest Reversi/Othello program:
http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~mburo/log.html

On switching from engineering to computer science or something along those lines, from what I've heard it's not that easy. It's definitely a lot easier to get into the program you want straight from high school.

As for differences between software engineering and CS, there's a good blog article about it on compsci.ca/blog and there's a small discussion about it right now in the sticky right above this topic. Smile
Author:  implosion [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
yeah well obviously not i wouldn't stop trying to just get 70% i'm giving it my all ... but i just happen to blank on test's i don't know why... for instance i just wrote a math test, i knew everything, i helped my friend study for it... but soon as i got the paper... i just blanked and then was crushed for time, got 72% on K/U and 48% on A ... yeah the guidance counselor i went to was alright, i only went to him because before he was my english teacher.. but now i'm going to a different counselor and she knows more.. haha... but does anyone know what universities think (mcmaster, waterloo, toronto) if i happen to retake a course?

also, university fair is coming up this weekend... and as you can see from my thread... i'm totally confused... i went to make a guidance appoint to ask them... but the whole week is full... so any advice ??? would it be a good idea if i were to bring along my cousin, he's finished university but he was in for business (accounting stuff).

and umm.. yeah... what would be some good questions to ask and does any one know websites that help you pick your career... besides careercruising ??
Author:  jbking [ Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Help Please
There are a few personality tests that may be of some help in figuring out which careers may suit you here are links about a couple of them:

Keirsey
Myers-Briggs

If you want something with a bit more of a career tilt, most universities have a career services area that may help as well as various student clubs that could also be a resource in helping to figure out what various majors could mean for yourself. There are also 101 books on this subject ranging from the classic, "What Color Is Your Parachute?" to Ask the Headhunter there are various blogs and books that may help.

A common idea is to think about 2 sets of things:
What do you like to do? What is it that you enjoy doing and that you could do for many hours without feeling drained and tired?
What are you good at doing? This is more about proficiency with a skill rather than whether you like it or not.

If there are things that meet both, then those are the career ideas you should explore as some people like talking to others and giving sales pitches and others like myself tend to be helpful and handy if someone has a problem but aren't natural salesmen.

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