Thinkpad's indestructibility comes in handy when someone trips over the power cord and sends your laptop flying across the lecture room. MacBooks' power cords are magnetically attached
Computer Science Canada Mac vs PC |
| Author: | Natman791 [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mac vs PC |
Hi everyone Next year i will be attending university for a computer science degree. I plan to purchase a laptop for it, and have been thinking of getting a macbook. However, i know Mac cannot run all the Apps that windows can and I was wondering if owning a Mac would present any problems for me. Thanks, Nathan |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
Some of the "windows apps" come in a Mac flavour. All others you can run through VM Fusion / Parallels / Boot-Camp -- lots of options there. In contrast a PC can't run any of the Mac apps. You're better off with a MacBook. |
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| Author: | rdrake [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mac vs PC |
Seriously... for the same price you can get an X series Thinkpad which has essentially identical specs, only half the weight. The only downside is the screen is 12.1" vs. 13". From experience I can say that weight should play a big factor in your decision on a laptop for university -- there's no way you want to be lugging around any extra weight if you don't have to. You can also upgrade the battery to get much more battery life than a Mac would ever give you, there's even an add-on which will give you up to 12 hours battery life. Thinkpads are also built like tanks (take it from a guy who dropped his Thinkpad 1 m onto solid concrete before). Thinkpad, MacBook. |
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| Author: | md [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
Thinkpads are generally speaking a better deal then macs. If your dead set on OS X and don't want to worry about getting it illegally and possibly without drivers for all of your hardware then get a Mac, otherwise a Thinkpad is nigh on indestructable and better in just about every measurable way. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
Thinkpad's indestructibility comes in handy when someone trips over the power cord and sends your laptop flying across the lecture room. MacBooks' power cords are magnetically attached |
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| Author: | wtd [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
How much is it going to cost you when your term paper or final program for a CS class is due, and Vista auto-applies an update that causes your computer to become unusable? The fees to retake a single class are not insubstantial. Buy a Mac. You won't regret it. |
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| Author: | Skynet [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
wtd @ Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:47 pm wrote: How much is it going to cost you when your term paper or final program for a CS class is due, and Vista auto-applies an update that causes your computer to become unusable?
The fees to retake a single class are not insubstantial. Buy a Mac. You won't regret it. That is a ridiculous leap of logic. Besides, if you're doing CS, you'll probably end up installing some flavour of Linux. Personally, I dual boot Ubuntu and XP. Ubuntu is for programming, XP is for MATLAB/Simulink, SolidWorks, and MS Office. (Microsoft Excel is *the* best spreadsheet software in existence) My Dell was half the cost of a comparable Mac when I bought it. |
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| Author: | md [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
Tony @ 2008-02-24, 6:47 pm wrote: Thinkpad's indestructibility comes in handy when someone trips over the power cord and sends your laptop flying across the lecture room. MacBooks' power cords are magnetically attached
Or the cord will just pull out. The magnetic power cord is pretty sweet, but it's not even close to the top of the list of requirements for a laptop. (I've had a prof trip over my power cord; it just pulled apart at the brick; no problem whatsoever) Quote: How much is it going to cost you when your term paper or final program for a CS class is due, and Vista auto-applies an update that causes your computer to become unusable?
The fees to retake a single class are not insubstantial. Buy a Mac. You won't regret it. What about if your running linux? Or even XP or Vista with updates disabled so they don't auto-magically install? I'd say that would negate your concern entirely. Never mind that very few if any first/second year CS courses (or arts courses you may be required to take) actually have a final paper or final program. I'm not saying macs aren't nice - they are. I'm just saying that there is are better computers out there for the money. AND you can run OS X in a virtual machine (or even on native hardware - I've done it) if you really want to. Heck; even if you want a laptop that fits in a manila envelope you can get something better and cheaper in a Thinkpad; the X300 beats the Macbook Air hands down in my mind. Oh, and for the record: linux + Thinkpad == most awesome thing ever. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
There are definitely cheaper alternatives to a MacBook, but the bottom line is that those alternatives come with a different feature set. There are things unique to a ThinkPad laptop and others that are unique to a MacBook. I guess software is mostly aside (because you can run it all through a VM), though I suppose it would be best to run your OS of choice natively. Between using my MacBook and my girlfriend's ThinkPad, I prefer the feel of a MacBook, by far. |
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| Author: | rdrake [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
md @ Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:40 pm wrote: Oh, and for the record: linux + Thinkpad == most awesome thing ever. I must second this. I'm using my Thinkpad as a gigantic Wiimote in some games in Linux because of the accelerometer drivers it has. Now how great is that?
Also on the Parallels argument letting you run Windows applications in OS X; forget not that you must also purchase both Parallels and a copy of Windows to run under it. This may be the solution for you, just keep the above in mind. I still say portability is what you should be looking for. The laptop should:
Good luck with whatever you choose. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
rdrake @ Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:05 pm wrote: forget not that you must also purchase both Parallels and a copy of Windows to run under it.
It's a laptop for University, and Universities supply free licenses of Windows to students. VM Fusion (which is an amazing virtualization solution) runs for about $50 now -- and considering that it makes installing Windows easier than installing the same copy of Windows natively... I think that it's totally worth it. |
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| Author: | rdrake [ Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
Tony @ Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:33 pm wrote: rdrake @ Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:05 pm wrote: forget not that you must also purchase both Parallels and a copy of Windows to run under it.
It's a laptop for University, and Universities supply free licenses of Windows to students. VM Fusion (which is an amazing virtualization solution) runs for about $50 now -- and considering that it makes installing Windows easier than installing the same copy of Windows natively... I think that it's totally worth it. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
If you run OS X, you'll have your Unix and while you can also install Linux and dual (or triple) boot, you'll have vastly less need to. I'm a fan of Linux, but if it were something as important as my education on the line, I wouldn't want it riding on a Linux distro on a laptop. Too many things that can get weird and get in the way of getting stuff done. Much the same situation as Windows... just different weird things that go wrong at inopportune times. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
Additional note from a guy who gets paid to muck around inside laptops... Apple's engineering is just on a whole different level than what you'll find in the Wintel world. And yes, that includes the premium Wintel machines (Toughbooks, Toshiba Porteges, HP's business grade notebooks, Sony SZ...). |
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| Author: | asd [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
guys are you pro skub or anti skub I'm pro skub and if your anti skub you are a idiot 
judging from your original post it might have been better to ask about the software differences (specifically, software that you are using now) between Windows and Mac OSX. Mac vs PC debates come and go but nobody seems to mind giving the same argument every time |
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| Author: | md [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
I just wish to point out that the Macbooks are really really nice laptops; and I love OS X (I'd use it over linux if it worked on my computer of choice). I simply prefer thinkpads as being more in line with my style preferences and hardware requirements. If the choice is between Mac and an equally expensive (or close to it) laptop; I'd probably go the the mac. But it *is* possible to get a good laptop (thinkpad T61) for ~1K. And there just isn't any way for a mac to even approach that price level at the same feature set. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
In today's announcement, Apple has upgraded MacBook's specs and dropped the price down to $1099. I think md's point is valid regardless -- you could get a decent machine for cheaper... But if your laptop budget is in a MacBook range, it should be given a serious consideration. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
Chinese proverb: "Buy the best, and you will only cry once." |
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| Author: | Geminias [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mac vs PC |
Honestly, if you love having your electronic equipment encased in shiny spray painted aluminum alloy and the words "Tampering with this case will void your warranty," then by all means keep buying Mac everybody! Oh wait... shit... I forgot that even though I hate Mac I own their stock. |
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| Author: | StealthArcher [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
Tony @ Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:55 am wrote: In today's announcement, Apple has upgraded MacBook's specs and dropped the price down to $1099.
I think md's point is valid regardless -- you could get a decent machine for cheaper... But if your laptop budget is in a MacBook range, it should be given a serious consideration. My parents are paying for 1000 of my laptop for my Birthday/Christmas combined. I will still never consider those overshined pieces of crud. No offense Tony, but I'm not a musician or a graphic artist. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
StealthArcher @ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:42 pm wrote: No offense Tony, but I'm not a musician or a graphic artist.
I never said that I was. A MacBook is an excellent software development machine. And I'm sorry to hear that StealthArcher -- you're missing out. No, not necessary on using a Mac or OS X or any of the software... a preference for those is a matter of opinion. You are missing out on a chance to try out anything different, that could or could not turn out to be better. StealthArcher @ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:42 pm wrote: I will still never consider those |
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| Author: | StealthArcher [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mac vs PC |
It's not that I refuse to try them, I have, I refuse to use them after trying them. I am open to alternate forms of use y'know. I just found Macs arent my style, and it seems everywhere i go someone is trying to shove them down my throat. |
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| Author: | r691175002 [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mac vs PC |
Not sure about the course, but I would be reluctant to bring a new (to me) operating system to a computer science course which is probbably targeted for windows development anyways. I would consider linux as a dual boot, but windows would probbably be necessary. |
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| Author: | rdrake [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mac vs PC |
StealthArcher @ Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:46 pm wrote: I just found Macs arent my style So you aren't in a band, an artist, or unemployed?
Seriously though, Natman791, it really comes down to what software you need. If you need something that runs on OSX, then go for it. If you really don't, then the Windows/Linux dual boot is probably the way to go. A Thinkpad has excellent Linux support should you decide to go that way, as you surely will be using Linux at one point or another in a computer science-related program. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mac vs PC |
r691175002 @ Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:02 pm wrote: computer science course which is probbably targeted for windows development anyways.
Don't know what you are basing this on, but Computer Science would be that one program most likely to not use Windows (because you know, you'd hope it to be a technical bunch of people that actually know what's going on). From what I've seen at Waterloo, the entire Math faculty runs on Unix. OSX, Linux, or any other flavour of *nix will do. Windows users are the ones in a disadvantage, and new students often have trouble figuring out how to open up and use an ssh connection to submit their assignments to the servers. |
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| Author: | md [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
The program I am currently in is unfortunately windows centric in the first few terms. Not by definition, but because the prof is an idiot who teaches "C++" using Microsoft extensions instead of the standard. Tony, do you have a link to these $1099 macs? I couldn't find them on the apple site and since I am sorta kinda looking to replace my current laptop... |
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| Author: | Tony [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
looks like that's on their US store. With USD on par, and no Canadian tax, it's cheaper... as long as you don't ship it through customs. I also recall Martin posting about cross-border tech support troubles. Local prices start at $1149. It's only $50 more, which I guess covers shipping. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
The only problem with the price drop is that it makes it hell for retailers with old stock to unload.  |
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| Author: | wtd [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
Tony @ Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:07 am wrote: Local prices start at $1149. It's only $50 more, which I guess covers shipping.
Bit of an economics tangent... I doubt it's to cover shipping, as the computers are shipped to both the U.S. and Canada from Taiwan. It's more likely that Apple is simply being conservative about the Canadian dollar, given that historically the U.S. dollar has been more highly valued. As Apple tends to keep its prices steady for periods of 8-9 months, they have to hedge against a drop in the loonie. |
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| Author: | AznTiger [ Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
i personally find PCs easier to use, but they both have their ups and downs, for example, though I'm all pro Windows so are the people who make viruses... Macs (assuming you don't run bootcamp) seem more crisp, and (in my opinion no one shoot me for this comment) are more artsy. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
AznTiger @ Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:45 am wrote: i personally find PCs easier to use
Perhaps you could be more specific about what you find easier about Windows, and what you find lacking in the Mac. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
I'd just like to point out that it's a 3 day job to completely re-install Windows and bring it to full function. Day 1 -- clear HDD. Figure out why WinXP can't find the hard drive. Figure out the BIOS SATA settings to actually make it work (WinXP doesn't come with SATA drivers on install). Go through the installation process. Day 2 -- download and install all the driver updates from IBM. Download and install all the updates from Microsoft. Day 3 -- some drivers still don't work (wireless and audio are especially difficult). Troubleshoot. |
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| Author: | rdrake [ Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:Mac vs PC |
Tony @ Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:28 am wrote: I'd just like to point out that it's a 3 day job to completely re-install Windows and bring it to full function. Since when? I'm able to completely reinstall Windows (including all my required applications) in a day. Installing Visual Studio takes a while, but still nowhere near 3 days. |
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| Author: | Tony [ Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:Mac vs PC |
Well, I guess in my case "a day" would have only the time between dinner and midnight~ish available. Hours wise, it would all fit into a single 24 hour (well less than that) slot, if it was all continuous. It would also depend on the machine. Some are better about their vendor drivers than others. It's just a horrible user experience when you finish the installation, but it's missing the drivers for the ethernet port, that you need to download all the missing drivers... |
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| Author: | jernst [ Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mac vs PC |
Whatever you do, don't buy an uber expensive gaming laptop and then spill soup on it. It's definitely a waste of far too much money  haha. |
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