Computer Science Canada

Is Virus Possible With Turing?
Author:  riveryu [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Is Virus Possible With Turing?
Can you write a virus in Turing? Whats the most CPU consuming feature in Turing? Whats the most memory consuming feature?

Juz some questions i thought either interesting or stupidly obvious. I dont see a Discussion section in Turing...

Theres juz Help, Submission, and Tutorials...
Author:  CodeMonkey2000 [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
Yes, look in the turing submission, I'm pretty sure some already did this.
Author:  Dan [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
I have not seen any one do a real full virus in turing but i have seen trongen program and other malcuice programs tho.

In theory it should be possible, however it would have limited capabilitys.
Author:  ericfourfour [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
The Pic module, I would guess, contains the most cpu and memory intensive procedures. Pic.Merge can easily be a bottleneck in any program. Plus storing a pictures pixel information can take a lot of memory.

A virus can be written for Windows because most users run it using an administrator account. This gives them full access to critical files. If the user is running in a user account it is pretty much impossible. You would have to find exploits and even then Turing can't do anything that advanced.
Author:  SIXAXIS [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Virus Possible With Turing?
I've made Turing viruses before although it only works on an admin account on XP. But it's funny because sometimes I hide them in my games and send it to my friends and they don't know that I just made over a million folders in their C drive.
Author:  Tony [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is Virus Possible With Turing?
SIXAXIS @ Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:54 am wrote:
they don't know that I just made over a million folders in their C drive.

That's not a virus. That's just being stupid.
Author:  petree08 [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
I know a guy that wrote a program that recursivly emptied all the contents of every folder on the computer. It was pretty cool. all though he did accedently execute it on his own computer so we lost the code for it.

Another "virus" creates endless files that contain alot random characters.

here is another "virus" created to piss off noobs
if you can't exit it, you are a noob

var WinID : int := Window.Open ("graphics:max,max")


var X, Y, Click : int
var Font1 : int
Font1 := Font.New ("System:30")
loop
mousewhere (X, Y, Click)
if Click = 1 then
sound (X + Y, 1)
end if
Window.SetPosition (WinID, X, Y)
Font.Draw ("NOOB!!!", maxx div 2 , maxy div 2, Font1, 12)

end loop

% generate this as a stand alone program and click off "prevent user from terminating program"
Author:  Tony [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
that's just all example of malware. To count as a virus, the program needs ability to reproduce.

It should be noted that virus itself could be independent of it's payload. That is, a virus could be a proof-of-concept program that spreads, but doesn't do anything.

I feel no sympathy for script-kiddies who couple viruses with malware, and end up having their legs broken for accidentally taking down some company's office. The author gets nothing out of the project other than the knowledge of raw untargetted damage.

In such a respect, it's arguably more ethical to build a bot-net. Author assembles something of value (to themselves), target PC is arguably undamaged (or much less so). Any any resulting DDoS is at least targeted damage. Though I'm sure that the receiving end of the attack will disagree Smile
Author:  ericfourfour [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
petree08 @ Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:21 am wrote:
I know a guy that wrote a program that recursivly emptied all the contents of every folder on the computer. It was pretty cool. all though he did accedently execute it on his own computer so we lost the code for it.

Unix: rm -rf /
Windows: rmdir /s c: (I'm not sure about this one)
Author:  OneOffDriveByPoster [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
Unix: rm -rf / > /dev/null 2>&1
Author:  petree08 [ Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
Yeah they wern't really viruses i just called them that for lack of a better term.
Author:  goroyoshi [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
Turing:

loop
     if not Sys.Exec ("ThisProgram.exe") then
            put "The Sys.Exec call failed"
            put "Error: ", Error.LastMsg
     end if
end loop

compile it, and you successfully crash someones computer
Author:  mirhagk [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
The thing I've always wanted to do was create a virus for OS X. Just to finally prove to all those idiots that it's not about it being more secure, it's about it being so obscure noone knows how to program for it/noone cares.

Actually probably the reason it doesn't have many viruses is because grade 10 kids who make "viruses" can't program for macs.
Author:  Raknarg [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
Well, there is no Turing for Mac Razz
Author:  Insectoid [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
mirhagk @ Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:27 pm wrote:
The thing I've always wanted to do was create a virus for OS X. Just to finally prove to all those idiots that it's not about it being more secure, it's about it being so obscure noone knows how to program for it/noone cares.

Actually probably the reason it doesn't have many viruses is because grade 10 kids who make "viruses" can't program for macs.


Grade 10 kids don't make viruses. They make stupid programs that do stupid things, and call them viruses. OS X has never been more secure than Windows (at least, not significantly so). The thing is, you have to type in an admin password every time you install something that makes use of sensitive APIs or that modify or use critical files. You can't 'accidentally' install it (I'm sure there are ways to circumvent this). The only way to install a virus (assuming you aren't retarded and knowingly install it) is if it's masquerading as something else- see Mac Defender, a recent OS X edition of a classic scareware scam.

Programming for a mac is essentially the same as programming on Windows. You just need a mac compiler/interpreter for whatever language you choose. Most OS-specific tasks can be done with *nix knowledge, or can be quickly googled.

As for all those 'idiots' you're talking about- Let's say I'm justified in calling you a bigot, and I wish you'd leave this board and take your ridiculous ideals and bullshit opinions with you. Maybe /b/ will take you; they have low standards.
Author:  DemonWasp [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
The biggest reason that there are fewer OSX viruses, in my opinion, than Windows viruses is that it's historically been much easier for a Windows exploit to spread autonomously and very quickly. Since Microsoft tries not to break backwards compatibility, viruses that affect one version of Windows tend to affect the next version too. Worse, Microsoft had to build a security model on top of their OS, rather than building an OS with a security model from the start.

If the obscurity argument worked, then you would see a lot more Linux viruses and Apache exploits because they power a huge fraction (> 50%) of the websites on the Internet. We do not: in fact, we see far more exploits with things like IIS and Tomcat than we do with Apache's httpd.

That said, the security story is a LOT better now. Modern CPUs have no-execute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_bit) capability, and modern OSes have a pretty reasonable security model (obviously, some better than others). Most of the time now, autonomous execution isn't the OS's fault: it's the fault of some program running on the OS, usually a web browser (Safari I'm looking at you) or email client. This is why you run as User, not as root.
Author:  ProgrammingFun [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
DemonWasp @ Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:49 am wrote:
The biggest reason that there are fewer OSX viruses, in my opinion, than Windows viruses is that it's historically been much easier for a Windows exploit to spread autonomously and very quickly. Since Microsoft tries not to break backwards compatibility, viruses that affect one version of Windows tend to affect the next version too. Worse, Microsoft had to build a security model on top of their OS, rather than building an OS with a security model from the start.

I would think that the main reason would be the fact that there are exponentially less (54 million as of today) and hackers would be better off infecting the greater population...which uses Windows.
Author:  DemonWasp [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
I had started writing a rebuttal, when I remembered that I was just parroting things I'd read somewhere...on the Internet. See here: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/skoll/anti-virus.php
Author:  goroyoshi [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
insectoid, I'm grade 9 and I can make some form of a virus, Sys.Exec and Dir.Delete
Author:  Tony [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Is Virus Possible With Turing?
goroyoshi @ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:57 pm wrote:
I can make some form of a virus...

You should re-read the entire thread. What you are thinking of is most definitely not a "virus", in a "payload delivery mechanism" sense.

What you are thinking of is "malware". You can certainly put together a program that lets a user delete their own files. There's never been any challenge to that.

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