Computer Science Canada

Will it fly?

Author:	md [ Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Will it fly?
Imagine a plane is sitting on a massive conveyor belt, as wide and as long as a runway. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels, moving in the opposite direction. Can the plane take off?

Author:	MihaiG [ Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
im guessing, but as soon as it takes off for that split second, it looses all moving power that is being applied unlike a real plane when you have the engines, so it would probably lift up a few feet or inches and then settle back down. but i think a better question would be "will it blend"?

Author:	ericfourfour [ Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Only if the conveyor belt sends air toward the plane. And it would have to be a lot of air. The plane has to push the air down. If there is no moving air, the plane cannot push it down, and cannot take off. Or is this a joke?

Author:	syntax_error [ Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
no its simply for a plane to fly it needs lift no? take you hand stick it out move it across your body that bit of "lift" is there no because of the air movement now if we some how did the same thing with our hand still however, a large movement below it there still is no change in the air therefore how can life every be achieved? Then again its not that simple; since I do not know how well jet engines work for example if they are on and still in on place is there enough air around it to allow of enough air intake if yes then the above case becomes a fallacy however, if there is not enough air then the above case is bona fide I think im am right although there may be still fallacies in my syllogistic. Meh, gave it a try.

Author:	ericfourfour [ Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Wait, does the plane have propellers or jets? It it does, then yes. Edit: New idea again, I'm an idiot. If the conveyer belt matches the plane's wheelspeed, there is no displacement, and no moving air relative to the plane.

Author:	syntax_error [ Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
ericfourfour wrote: Edit: New idea again, I'm an idiot. If the conveyer belt matches the plane's wheelspeed, there is no displacement, and no moving air relative to the plane. he states: Quote: The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels, moving in the opposite direction.

Author:	Mazer [ Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Come on guys. The belt spins the wheels. That's all. The wheels aren't running from a motor; they aren't moving the plane forward. All forward motion is coming from the propellers.

Author:	MichaelM [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
Ya, Mazer makes a good point. I think it would take off. Besides, imagine that you're running on a conveyer belt that moves backward at the same speed you run forward, would you suggest you couldn't jump off? You could jump, so the plane could fly.

Author:	Mackie [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
We can jump if there is lift or not. Maybe a helicopter could take off.

Author:	md [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
I am disturbed by the number of people who think it'll happen when flying pigs eat tacos.

Author:

PaulButler [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:35 pm ]

Post subject:

RE:Will it fly?

Assuming the wheel axles are frictionless, there is nothing to stop the plane from moving forward and taking off like normal.

But if there is no friction on the axels, the conveyor belt itself would be a logical impossibility:

code:

Let v = the speed the plane would be traveling at if they conveyor belt were off
Let m = the speed of the conveyor belt against the direction of the plane
Let w = the speed of the wheels in the direction of the plane

We are given m = w. But the speed of the wheels, w = v + m. In other words, if the plane is generating enough thrust to move forward at v m/s, the wheels have to move v m/s more than the belt is moving. (Since the belt does nothing to slow the plane down, if the axles are frictionless).

So:
if m = w and w = v + m
m = v + m
v = 0

So if the wheels are frictionless and the plane generates thrust, it is impossible for a conveyor belt to exist where the speed of the conveyor belt matches the speed of the wheels.

Here is another way to think about it:

code:

Imagine you had a wheel with a frictionless axel and you were next to a conveyor belt which would move as fast as the wheel was moving. You stand grounded, but you hold the wheel by the axel and put it on the conveyor belt. Now the conveyor belt could start going at any speed, and the speed would still match the speed of the wheel (since it would cause the wheel to rotate). But suppose you started to push the wheel forward - nothing stops you from doing this, since the axle is frictionless. No matter how fast the belt goes, though, the wheel will always go faster because the wheel is matching the speed of the conveyor, plus it is moving.

Author:	HellblazerX [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Mazer's right. It's the propellers that move the plane forward, not the wheels. Think of those surface-to-air missiles. They don't need wheels to lift off with. Also, I accidentally voted no, but I meant to vote yes.

Author:	syntax_error [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
HellblazerX wrote: Mazer's right. It's the propellers that move the plane forward, not the wheels. Think of those surface-to-air missiles. They don't need wheels to lift off with. ya but is there enough air gather-able to move the turbines fast enough I always thought the plane still needed the wheels for speed to garther air faster and in large amounts and also the WINGS provide much of the lift as well with the air moving around it no? EDIT When flying pigs eat tacos! 4 pll said that?? thats as many as yes WoW......sad

Author:	PaulButler [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
syntax_error @ Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:57 pm wrote: HellblazerX wrote: Mazer's right. It's the propellers that move the plane forward, not the wheels. Think of those surface-to-air missiles. They don't need wheels to lift off with. ya but is there enough air gather-able to move the turbines fast enough I always thought the plane still needed the wheels for speed to garther air faster and in large amounts and also the WINGS provide much of the lift as well with the air moving around it no? EDIT When flying pigs eat tacos! 4 pll said that?? thats as many as yes WoW......sad The wheels of a plane are not (usually?) motorized. That's why big planes need to be towed around by trucks on the ground.

Author:	syntax_error [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
Quote: PaulButler wrote: syntax_error @ Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:57 pm wrote: HellblazerX wrote: Mazer's right. It's the propellers that move the plane forward, not the wheels. Think of those surface-to-air missiles. They don't need wheels to lift off with. ya but is there enough air gather-able to move the turbines fast enough I always thought the plane still needed the wheels for speed to garther air faster and in large amounts and also the WINGS provide much of the lift as well with the air moving around it no? EDIT When flying pigs eat tacos! 4 pll said that?? thats as many as yes WoW......sad The wheels of a plane are not (usually?) motorized. That's why big planes need to be towed around by trucks on the ground. yes i do see you point however the problem is still with the forward movement of the plane is not there thus no life by the planes wings and still the issue : enough air since the conveyor is moving fast as the wheels the plane is stationary? no?

Author:	Tony [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
I think Paul is onto the right track.. the force keeping the plane back is the friction in the wheel's axle. Since the wheels are not motorized, the plane body and the conveyer need to be treated as separate objects, with wheels being the only point of contact in between. So it's friction in the axle vs. the jets. Go figure.

Author:	PaulButler [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
syntax_error @ Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:12 pm wrote: yes i do see you point however the problem is still with the forward movement of the plane is not there thus no life by the planes wings and still the issue : enough air since the conveyor is moving fast as the wheels the plane is stationary? no? But then you have a logical contradiction. If the plane is not stationary, the wheels must be moving faster than the conveyor belt, which is not allowed.

Author:	md [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
There is a slightly different take on this that doesn't answer teh question of the plane taking off since it results in the end of the universe first. time 0: plane is stationary -> wheels not moving -> treadmill not moving time 0.1: plane powers up engines -> wheels move ->treadmill moves -> causes wheels to move faster -> treadmill goes faster -> repeat adnausium. time 0.1+n: Assuming the treadmill can speed up instantly, the increasing speed of the treadmill requires ever increasing power; with it's limit aproaching infinity. Clearly not possible, as infinite energy breaks the universe. Really though what will happen (and I think will be shown on mythbusters) is that the treadmill won't be able to accelerate as fast as a plane can; and so will not be able to accellerate the wheels up to the point where the rolling resistance is enough to cancel out the thust of the engines. That leads to the plane taking off, though perhaps in measurably more time (probably not however). The other possibilty is that the bearings in the wheels of the plane will seize; which would definitely cause enough friction to either stop the plane or tear off the the landing gear. Both of those result in the plane stopping due to a massive increase in friction. Of course at that point the treadmill would be moving exceedingly fast and would quite possibly move the plane backwards fast enough to get it airborn (or at least through it very far indeed). Lots of people think of it like a car on a dynamo or a car on a treadmill; but those are very different circumstances. A car powers it's wheels, which push on the ground causing the car to accellerate. A plane's move air backwards (lots, very fast) which causes the plane to move forward (newton's 3rd law? one of them at least); and it's the plane's forward movement that causes air to move under the wings causing the lift which makes the plane fly. The wheels are there to reduce the friction against the ground and that's all. There are even planes that do not have wheels (float planes, ski planes, etc.) and they are able to take off without issue.

Author:	syntax_error [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
darn.

Author:	ericfourfour [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Can a sea plane take off upstream if the current's speed matches the plane's?

Author:	Clayton [ Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Yes.

Author:	CodeMonkey2000 [ Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Hey I asked this on 4chan a while ago.

Author:	andrew. [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
I don't think it would fly because as soon as it gets off the belt, I think it would lose all momentum. I'm not sure though as I'm not exactly a "physics guru".

Author:	Tony [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
md @ Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:10 pm wrote: and I think will be shown on mythbusters It has been shown on MythBusters. Though the threadmill was set to the plane's takeoff speed, not infinitely accelerating. Some speculated that the plane will remain stationary at best, but it took off without much of a problem. This was a full-size scale experiment too.

Author:	r691175002 [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
I have found that in general, this question hinges upon the interpretation of the question. In my opinion, the spirit of the question is that the treadmill will always be moving fast enough to hold the plane stationary while its wheels are on the ground. Yes, in real life this is impossible, yes, in real life that would melt the bearings and pop the tires, however, as the question states that the treadmill will always move fast enough to hold the plane stationary, the plane will be stationary. The other side generally argues that because the planes thrust comes from displacing the air, it does not matter how fast the treadmill moves, the plane will always move forwards anyways. (To this I say that the treadmill only has to move fast enough that the friction between the wheels and the bearings becomes great enough to counteract the planes thrust. Clearly an impossible situation, but thats what the question suggests to me). Very few people will argue that the plane will take off if it is not moving, people simply argue about whether the plane will move or not. So essentially, the question is quite simple, the debate originates over the wording of the question (Although few people seem to realize it). I will throw a third option in there though, some planes (Generally ones with engines in front of the wings, such as propeller planes) do generate enough airflow to get lift even while stationary since the engines are forcing air over the wings. These could take off even while stationary.

Author:	md [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Your third option is false. No fixed wing aircraft produce enough lift to take off without moving forward. Your right though, it's all about the wording of the question. If the question reads "The speed of the threadmill is equal to the speed of the plane's wheels" then there are really only three states. 1) Stopped, 2) infinite speed, and 3) somewhere in between T0 and T0+(1/infinity-1) where the speed would be non-infinite. Since that clearly is contrary to the known laws of physics it's obviously not worth the time spent thinking of it up to this point. Though, for the record - the plane would take off in such a hypothetical situation. As soon as you get an infinity in there you get infinite friction and thus infinite force in a backwards direction. The plane would get thrown into the cosmos tail first. Likewise the earth would start spinning infinitely faster (forwards or backwards I leave to someone else to figure out) and kill us all before we had a chance to observe it. Infinities break things like that. It the question instead implies that the treadmill runs at a constant - but continuously updating speed (where the updates occur in at fixed intervals > 1/infinity-1) then the question is a matter of how long would it take the plane to take off, and how fast would the wheels be spinning at that point. The time lag between wheel speed and treadmill speed would allow the plane to move forward, but the shorter the update interval the faster the wheels would be spinning before takeoff. If the bearings seize before the plane has enough lift to take off then it will grind to a halt. In any case it doesn't matter since it's a) so far beyond impractical to implement it that it doesn't matter and b) significantly less important then the color of the socks I will wear tomorrow.

Author:	r691175002 [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Will it fly?
md @ Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:53 pm wrote: In any case it doesn't matter since it's a) so far beyond impractical to implement it that it doesn't matter and b) significantly less important then the color of the socks I will wear tomorrow. Agreed.

Author:	Nyrd [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
The force that the propeller (or jet) creates is relatively constant after initial acceleration. Now, since the conveyor belt doesn't actually give anymore force than that of the static friction between the belt and the wheels (which is based solely on mass and coefficients of friction - NOT speed - thus is constant), taking off from a moving conveyor belt will be essentially the same as taking off of a pavement run way. The thrust of the plane will quickly overcome the force of friction and we'll have FLIGHT. MWahahaha!

Author:	r691175002 [ Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Will it fly?
Nyrd @ Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:09 pm wrote: The force that the propeller (or jet) creates is relatively constant after initial acceleration. Now, since the conveyor belt doesn't actually give anymore force than that of the static friction between the belt and the wheels (which is based solely on mass and coefficients of friction - NOT speed - thus is constant), taking off from a moving conveyor belt will be essentially the same as taking off of a pavement run way. The thrust of the plane will quickly overcome the force of friction and we'll have FLIGHT. MWahahaha! You missed the kinetic friction between the bearings and the wheels as well as the kinetic friction between the wheels and the treadmill, and finally the rolling friction of the wheels. (Some of them will replace each other as the speed increases). Assuming the question was serious when it said "The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels" you just end up at a point where the kinetic friction of the bearings + wheels is great enough to counteract the forward force of the engines (Without melting, exploding or similar). There is really nothing to this question beyond that.

Author:	md [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Will it fly?
r691175002 @ 2008-04-06, 11:44 pm wrote: Assuming the question was serious when it said "The conveyer belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels" you just end up at a point where the kinetic friction of the bearings + wheels is great enough to counteract the forward force of the engines (Without melting, exploding or similar). There is really nothing to this question beyond that. Wrong, by reason of outside force. Imagine, instead of a plane, a car is on the treadmill and this car is being pulled forward by a rope with it's wheels all freewheeling. Now, if the treadmill is stopped and the car is being pulled forward at a constant speed then the car's wheels will be rotating at a constant speed S. If the speed of the wheels is R (+ is forward) then the speed of the treadmill M must be -R. In the first instant T0 you can say that R = S and M = -S. However, since the car does not stop moving forward the speed of the wheel at time T0+1 is R = -M + S, or R = 2S. Likewise the treadmill must accellerate to M = -R, or M = -2S. If you update the speed of your treadmill at a rate of U then doing some thinking you get R<sub>T</sub> = -M<sub>T-U</sub>+S and M<sub>T</sub> = -R<sub>T</sub>. So, R<sub>T</sub> = R<sub>T-U-U</sub> + S, R<sub>T</sub> = -M<sub>T-3U</sub>+S +S, R<sub>T</sub> = R<sub>T-3U</sub>+S +S, R<sub>T</sub> = -M<sub>T-4U</sub>+3S, etc. Until T-U = 0, where R<sub>0</sub> = S and M<sub>0</sub>=0 I leave it to someone else to work out the formula to describe that R<sub>T</sub> non-recursively, because to be honest I'm lazy and inspection works well enough for this. Assuming you start at T = 0 and update at U = 1/2 then at T=2 you get R<sub>2</sub> = -M<sub>1.5</sub> + S = R<sub>1.5</sub>+S+S = -M<sub>1</sub>+S+S = R<sub>1</sub>+S+S+S = -M<sub>0.5</sub>+S+S+S = R<sub>0.5</sub>+S+S+S+S = -M<sub>0</sub>+S+S+S+S = 0+S+S+S+S = 4S By inspection it appears that R<sub>T</sub> = (T/U)S, where T > 0 Now, since the question says that the treadmill always equals the speed of the wheels then we must assume that the time between updates is as close to 0 as possible, but still greater then 0 (otherwise it doesn't make ANY sense - you can't update every 0 seconds!) so U = 1/∞. So R<sub>T</sub> = (T/U)S, where T > 0 = R<sub>T</sub> = (T/(1/∞))S, = (T*(∞/1))S = T∞S Or, the speed of the wheel at any particular time T is countably infinite. As the friction in the wheels of our hypothetical car is non-zero, we can safely say that the net force exerted backwards on the car is some fraction if ∞, say ∞/F. Really though it doesn't matter what fraction as it's still infinite. Since we go not have any means of pulling a car forward against infinite force or even support infinite force, our rope that is pulling the car forward will break, the car's wheels will stop accelerating and start slowing down at a rate dependent on F, and the car will shoot backwards down the treadmill at ∞ speed. Therefor taken to it's logical conclusion the car (or plane as in the original question) would indeed become airborne, just as soon as it left the treadmill in reverse.

Author:	md [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:04 am ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
bugger, <sub></sub> doesn't work. It makes subscripts for anyone interested.

Author:	Nyrd [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
Quote: You missed the kinetic friction between the bearings and the wheels as well as the kinetic friction between the wheels and the treadmill, and finally the rolling friction of the wheels. (Some of them will replace each other as the speed increases). Will not the kinetic friction between the wheels and the bearings irrelevant? The friction inside the wheels will have no impact on the forward motion of the plane other than making it take a bit longer for the plane to reach take off speed. Furthermore, since we're assuming that the wheels are turning, will there not be no kinetic friction between them and the treadmill? (don't turning wheels only experience static friction -> That being the reason that you'll stop faster in a car if you pump the breaks not slam them? - knowing of course, that kinetic friction is less than static). In any case though, all of these forces exist even when taking off of a solid runway. The only thing that could increase with the treadmill is the heat inside the wheels because they are moving faster (And that's not because friction increases with speed, but rather, the same amount of heat released because of the friction is released in a shorter time). since we're assuming that they won't melt, explode etc even this shouldn't be a problem. - Of course correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just working with high school physics and the idea that Friction does not increase with speed

Author:	md [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
Nyrd @ 2008-04-07, 1:55 pm wrote: Will not the kinetic friction between the wheels and the bearings irrelevant? The friction inside the wheels will have no impact on the forward motion of the plane other than making it take a bit longer for the plane to reach take off speed. Furthermore, since we're assuming that the wheels are turning, will there not be no kinetic friction between them and the treadmill? (don't turning wheels only experience static friction -> That being the reason that you'll stop faster in a car if you pump the breaks not slam them? - knowing of course, that kinetic friction is less than static). The friction is small, but at large enough wheel speeds it does matter. Mostly because it builds up heat - which causes bearings to seize. Then the wheels stop spinning which causes significantly more friction. There is friction between the wheel and the treadmill, which how cars work Also, the reason pumping your breaks stops you faster is that on cars without ABS slamming the brake pedal to the floor locks the wheels, and sliding rubber has a lower coefficient of friction then static rubber. Pumping your breaks helps prevent the wheels from locking. If you have ABS pumping the brakes actually stops you slower. Nyrd @ 2008-04-07, 1:55 pm wrote: In any case though, all of these forces exist even when taking off of a solid runway. The only thing that could increase with the treadmill is the heat inside the wheels because they are moving faster (And that's not because friction increases with speed, but rather, the same amount of heat released because of the friction is released in a shorter time). since we're assuming that they won't melt, explode etc even this shouldn't be a problem. Um, what? The heat would be greater because the wheels are spinning faster - and the heat from the friction would build up faster then it can be dissipated. Also, we are NOT assuming that they won't melt or explode (they being tires I would assume); these are actually very real possibilities (see my previous post about infinite speeds). Nyrd @ 2008-04-07, 1:55 pm wrote: - Of course correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just working with high school physics and the idea that Friction does not increase with speed But of course we shall correct you! Someone is wrong on the internet!

Author:	r691175002 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
Here is perhaps an explanation that will hit home. Let us consider the epitome of modern technology, the fan car: Now before you laugh at the idiot who invented this, consider its similarities to a plane. Aside from its lack of wings (Or common sense), it is the perfect invention to show why either physics will break or the plane will not take off. If I were to ask you, given a treadmill of potential infinite speed, could you stop this car from moving forwards, what would you say? (The correct answer is yes). This is simply because the wheels are not frictionless. If you pushed this car forward (With giant fan of death turned off), it would eventually come to a stop. The faster the wheels are turning, the more the bearings heat up (And friction happens) and try to stop the wheels from spinning (Which in turn allows the treadmill to pull it back). Same deal with a toy balloon powered car (Everyone has made one of these at some point). I can guarantee you that if you stuck one of those on a treadmill on maximum speed, it would fly backwards like no tomorrow. As a matter of fact, the wheels have absolutely no bearing on the problem whatsoever, this is simply a box with a low coefficient of friction with a fan attached. Clearly if I dropped a block of ice + fan onto a treadmill it would not keep moving forwards. The fact that it is a plane is completely irrelevant. If the treadmill is moving fast enough, it can counteract any amount of force provided to the plane. The key word is fast enough, which is generally such an implausible speed that the question gets sidetracked.

Author:	Nyrd [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Will it fly?
Quote: Nyrd @ 2008-04-07, 1:55 pm wrote: In any case though, all of these forces exist even when taking off of a solid runway. The only thing that could increase with the treadmill is the heat inside the wheels because they are moving faster (And that's not because friction increases with speed, but rather, the same amount of heat released because of the friction is released in a shorter time). since we're assuming that they won't melt, explode etc even this shouldn't be a problem. Um, what? The heat would be greater because the wheels are spinning faster - and the heat from the friction would build up faster then it can be dissipated. Also, we are NOT assuming that they won't melt or explode (they being tires I would assume); these are actually very real possibilities (see my previous post about infinite speeds). Hmm. That's what I meant . . . perhaps I'm too tired to write :S Quote: The friction is small, but at large enough wheel speeds it does matter. Mostly because it builds up heat - which causes bearings to seize. Then the wheels stop spinning which causes significantly more friction. Though if the wheels seize, and stop moving, the treadmill (which goes the exact speed of the wheels) would also have to stop moving. Leaving the plane to take off with frozen wheels. -> Difficult yes, but technically possible Quote: The key word is fast enough, which is generally such an implausible speed that the question gets sidetracked. Taking into account the fact that wheels seize after a certain speed though, and the treadmill must also consequently stop moving, that speed could never be reached? And I actually think that the guy who invented the fan car is a genius

Author:	Nyrd [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:	RE:Will it fly?
Though this seems to be where the interpretation of the question comes in. Does the treadmill match the rotational speed of the wheels? :S

Author:	r691175002 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: RE:Will it fly?
Nyrd @ Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:35 pm wrote: Though this seems to be where the interpretation of the question comes in. Indeed. There are too many factors that would come into play that make the question irrelevant and more of a wording problem.

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