Computer Science Canada

Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Author:  Dan [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
I have just recived an e-mail from dr. holt of holt software. I asked him about the futtuer of turing and if holt software is going out of business or not. Here is his reply:

Dr. Holt wrote:

Yes, the company Holt Software has pretty much run out of gas.

We have just posted a free copy of PC Turing on the company website
http://www.holtsoft.com/

We'll investeigate putting up a Ready To Program (Java) freeby.

We'll investigate putting various books published by the company on the
web for free as well.


You can get a copy of the newest version of Turing for free now! You can find it here:
http://www.holtsoft.com/Turing%204.1.1a.zip

This aperars to be version 4.1.1a witch is newer then even i have. This is both good and bad news to the turing comunity as it is now free but it is also no longer in development.

UPDATE: File was moved to http://www.holtsoft.com/Turing%204.1.1.zip
Author:  StealthArcher [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Well, at least soon, we'll always have open T.

Anyhow, this is great! Free TURING!!!! YAYZORS, NO MORE NOOBS ASKING AND GETTING YELLED AT!!!!!! ROXXOR!
Author:  Nick [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Author:  Euphoracle [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Well done.
Author:  zylum [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
we should ask them for the source so we could develop turing in an open environment.
Author:  Dan [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
zylum @ 27th November 2007, 3:40 pm wrote:
we should ask them for the source so we could develop turing in an open environment.


I plan to, i will let you guys know if i get a reply and what it says.
Author:  Amailer [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Hehe excellent Very Happy
Have you mentioned to him about OpenT?
Author:  agnivohneb [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
om freaking g, is this for real [clicked on download] omg it is real. lets party multi
Author:  wtd [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
zylum @ Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:40 am wrote:
we should ask them for the source so we could develop turing in an open environment.


The folks working on an open implementation are probably better off not being biased by legacy implementation decisions. Or, in other words, sometimes it's best to start with a (relatively) clean slate.
Author:  zylum [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Well the development of turing and openT can be independent. Also, creating a compiler is not easy. That being said, the people working on openT can look at the turing implementation for ideas since many aspects of compiler construction are pretty standard.
Author:  Jephir [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
HOLY SHITTTTTTT!
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Wow, this surely comes as a surprise. Congratulations on finally getting something done about the dead silence from HoltSoft, it's not a bad way for them to go down. Perhaps there is some hope for Turing after all. Wink
Author:  Wolf_Destiny [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Hmm, they also lifted the restriction on commercial use, I suppose they really are done then. This'll make a nice upgrade to my version (I've still got 4.0.3)
Author:  rdrake [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Wolf_Destiny @ Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:24 pm wrote:
Hmm, they also lifted the restriction on commercial use, I suppose they really are done then. This'll make a nice upgrade to my version (I've still got 4.0.3)
Nobody in their right mind would use Turing in a commercial project.
Author:  Wolf_Destiny [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Very Happy you underestimate me sir, for I am most certainly not in my right mind.

Although you're right of course, it's really far too slow, and I don't like the look of the icon.
Author:  StealthArcher [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Has anyone figured out what exactly what is new with this version? It seems to be slightly faster. I tested with my hbm converter, and compression of a 128x960 photo took only 30 seconds, whilist it took 1 min 3 sec before with 4.1....
Author:  Nick [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
im not sure try looking in the pdf release notes (found in support/documentationj)
Author:  Tony [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
That document is for the old 4.0 release.
Author:  Dan [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
I part of it just might be making a new version that is the "free" version. There might be nothing new over 4.1.

I could do some tests when i get time and comapre the exes, libs, ect.
Author:  Nick [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
well if Holtsoft does release the open source we could make it o you'd have to include the libs wouldn't that be great?
Author:  Tony [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
momop @ Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:11 am wrote:
so you'd have to include the libs wouldn't that be great?
Not really, since it will break just about all of the existing code. A better approach would probably be to parse the source and let the compiler decide on which libraries are needed for compilation.
Author:  lordroba [ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
OMG! you guys have no idea how long I`ve been looking for this. downloading right now! Can`t wait to see what kind of effect this has on my Phantom Gear and Jetman games!
Author:  Jephir [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
I think the new release supports complex multi-dimensional array resizing, someone confirm for me though.
Author:  Nick [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Jephir @ Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:50 pm wrote:
I think the new release supports complex multi-dimensional array resizing, someone confirm for me though.

in a code I wrote up quick it does seem to work!!!Very Happy

code below
code:
var test : flexible array 1 .. 0, 1 .. 0 of int
new test, 3, 3
test (3, 3) := 10
put test (3, 3)
Author:  Carey [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
that is not an accurate test. in my experience it only threw the complex blah blah error when i tried to resize the array after the second time. The above example works in 4.1. I dont have 4.1a yet so could someone test this for me?

code:
var test : flexible array 1 .. 0, 1 .. 0 of int
new test, 3, 3
test (3, 3) := 10
put test (3, 3)
new test, 3, 4
Author:  Nick [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
tested and failed Sad I was so happy too
Author:  Jephir [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Carey @ Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:10 pm wrote:
that is not an accurate test. in my experience it only threw the complex blah blah error when i tried to resize the array after the second time. The above example works in 4.1. I dont have 4.1a yet so could someone test this for me?

code:
var test : flexible array 1 .. 0, 1 .. 0 of int
new test, 3, 3
test (3, 3) := 10
put test (3, 3)
new test, 3, 4


My hopes and dreams! Nooooo!

Oh well, maybe next time Holtsoft.
Author:  Dan [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Jephir @ 18th December 2007, 9:17 pm wrote:

Oh well, maybe next time Holtsoft.


Sadly there is no next time unless we can convice them open socre it and some one else does it.
Author:  rdrake [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Dan @ Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:37 pm wrote:
Jephir @ 18th December 2007, 9:17 pm wrote:

Oh well, maybe next time Holtsoft.


Sadly there is no next time unless we can convice them open socre it and some one else does it.
I'm not very sad, rather I'm quite happy that the first issue is taken care of Wink.
Author:  Nick [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
can some people try making exe's with the new turing it only turns out to not work for me

(I tried both simple hello wolrd programs and also new and old games)
Author:  richcash [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
The reason they can't make multi-dimensional flexible arrays in my opinion is that flexible is just a keyword, it is not a type like arrays are.
code:
type Arr : array 1 .. 10 of int             %works
type Arr : flexible array 1 .. 10 of int    %doesn't

So that's why this can't work, flexible is just a keyword.
code:
var x : flexible array 0 .. 1 of flexible array 1 .. 10 of int  %doesn't work

If the syntax commonly used for a multidimensional flexible array was implemented, there would be no way to distinguish between a flexible array of static arrays and a flexible array of flexible arrays.
code:
var x : flexible array 1 .. 5, 1 .. 5 of int

And infact that does give you a flexible array of static arrays, you can change the first set of bounds all you want.
Author:  chrisbrown [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Any chance a mod would be so kind as to inquire to Dr. Holt about the possible release of the PC class's required system files? (PC.ParallelPut, etc). For that matter, does anyone have these files, and if so may I have them?
Author:  SNIPERDUDE [ Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
I seem to be getting the same errors. Any help????
Author:  Ultrahex [ Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
methodoxx, they are in support folder like the error message normally says.
Author:  chrisbrown [ Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Many thanks ultrahex. I guess I didn't make that connection.
Author:  darkangel [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Its true! you cant compile into .exe's "bad header" is the error it spits out.
Author:  McKenzie [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Maybe this should be a new topic but HoltSoft very recently posted a pdf of two of its Turing books as well as Ready to Program.
Author:  michaelp [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Sweet, I was thinking about using a Turing book to look at the language. Will be a good break from C++.

edit: Where? Rolling Eyes

edit: Nvm, I found it! Wink
Author:  MichaelM [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Hmm, does anyone know what happened to the link for downloading Turing 4.1.1a? When I click it I get the "HTTP 404 Not Found". I downloaded it at school when you guys first posted it, but I only bothered to get it at home now...
Author:  Mackie [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
MichaelM @ Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:45 pm wrote:
Hmm, does anyone know what happened to the link for downloading Turing 4.1.1a? When I click it I get the "HTTP 404 Not Found". I downloaded it at school when you guys first posted it, but I only bothered to get it at home now...
Here's the link to the download.
http://www.holtsoft.com/Turing%204.1.1.zip
Author:  MichaelM [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Thanks Mackie, the one you posted works. For some reason I get an error from the other one.
Author:  Tony [ Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Holtsoft has changed the name from 4.1.1a to 4.1.1 so the file's location also changed
Author:  Clayton [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Just for everyone's information, Holtsoft has also uploaded the installer for RTP, as well as a couple of textbooks (in PDF of course). These can all be found here
Author:  [Gandalf] [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
McKenzie @ 2008-01-18, 8:57 am wrote:
Maybe this should be a new topic but HoltSoft very recently posted a pdf of two of its Turing books as well as Ready to Program.

Deja vu?
Author:  Clayton [ Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Indeed.
Author:  SJ [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
when i go on holtsoft's website it says it's "forbidden" Sad

can someone upload turing onto rapidshare or something?
Author:  Dan [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
SJ @ 30th March 2008, 5:06 pm wrote:
when i go on holtsoft's website it says it's "forbidden" Sad

can someone upload turing onto rapidshare or something?


Unfrontly they never gave redistuion rights to any one, even tho the file was free for a time. When i e-mailed them asking for the right to host it on compsci.ca they did not reply.
Author:  Mackie [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:58 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
So what now? Turing dies?
Author:  CodeMonkey2000 [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Hopefully.
Author:  BigBear [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
If Holt Software discontinues turing high schools will probably continue to use it to teach programming.
Author:  StealthArcher [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Probably not, the lack of support will kill it.

It's the same reason schools won't switch to OpenT.
Author:  Mackie [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
That's terrible! If Turing dies, so does half the forum. Sure there will be more intelligence going around, but with less traffic can the ad money support the site?

As for now, I am archiving and triple backing up my Turing program files, for future generations.
Author:  Tony [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
StealthArcher @ Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:43 pm wrote:
Probably not, the lack of support will kill it.

Turing didn't offer much support to begin with, although I figure it's often just a perception that they could try to bother someone for it... and that there's a phone number listed somewhere.

Though even if the raw "I need HELPz with Turing!!!" traffic drops off, I don't think that would account for half the community. We might have been in trouble a couple of years ago, but now half of the raw traffic comes to /blog and the most concentrated activity happens during the DWITE rounds. Either is language independent.
Author:  Mackie [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Well, we can only hope that this results in a more intelligent community. I'm very excited about all of things going on in the community lately. Plus what ever Tony has up his sleeve.
Author:  DaveAngus [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
Thats too bad about Holtsoft.
My school uses them a lot for software.
Author:  I Smell Death [ Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  RE:Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
the one thing about the version that they are giving away on their site is that it doesn't compile programs into an exe file properly. to do it you will need a previous version.
Author:  shadowman544 [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Holt Software News (FREE TURING)
this angers me i had to search for like a month and a half to find a working download and now its free Evil or Very Mad

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