Well, not so much that you can say that you're "better," but that you can say, "I'm right."
Of course, if the other person continues to argue in the face of logic, then you can say that you're a "better" geek.
Computer Science Canada What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
| Author: | wtd [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I suspect that these fields attract a certain type of individual more than others because logic (upon which the other two are based) cannot be influenced by force or power of any kind. I was not popular as a kid. I was frequently verbally and physically abused by my peers. But no matter how much they shunned me or beat me, they could never make two plus two equal three. Discuss! |
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| Author: | md [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I agree! Though I think that people who are bullied and are good at logic are further drawn to things like math or CS because they are areas where you can say to your peers "I'm better then you" and not have them say otherwise. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Well, not so much that you can say that you're "better," but that you can say, "I'm right." Of course, if the other person continues to argue in the face of logic, then you can say that you're a "better" geek. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
As a corollary to this, I believe that we tend to find more geeks in academia than in practical applications of math and computer science because the problems are smaller and more fundamental. An academic can provide a proof that is only a few pages and prove to his or her peers that he or she is correct in making an assertion. Now, let's think about a practical application. Perhaps aerospace. Whilst the academic deals with equations involving maybe four or five variables, the aerospace engineer deals with equations with hundreds of variables in designing a wing. Such engineers have been arguing over the optimal wing design for a hundred years. |
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| Author: | md [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I don't know if that's true. I think there are plenty of geeks out there doing real world engineering, or even things completely unrelated to math/CS (hence forth let's just "logic"). I think that perhaps there is a subset of geeks who are perhaps more interested in the math, and a subset who are more interested in the problems. Both are geeks, and I think there are actually more of the later then the former. The later just happen to be spread out all over the place and generally more able to blend in with the rest of society; the ones in academia tend to be rather awkward in social settings in my experience. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Granted, I am speaking in generalizations. |
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| Author: | BenLi [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Quote: I was not popular as a kid. I was frequently verbally and physically abused by my peers. But no matter how much they shunned me or beat me, they could never make two plus two equal three.
Much like my own experience. Such people perhaps find refuge in intellectual centres where people have similar interests and intellegence. Computer science one such unifying activity. This creates a community of sorts where CS enthusiasts are accepted and not shunned or labelled. Perhaps this contributes to the success of a forum like this |
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| Author: | Clayton [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I also think that that kind of treatment helped me into the world of math and CS. For the longest time, I spent many hours just reading and studying about logic problems and such. Today, I love math and CS and hope to make a career of it. I see other kids who were the "cool" kids growing up, and all I see are kids that are going nowhere and doing drugs daily behind the school. I don't regret my decisions at all  |
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| Author: | CodeMonkey2000 [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Well I happen to be extremely popular and all the girls dig me ....in a way......but not really....
Well what draws me towards logic and CS is the simple fact that it's what I'm best at and that it is easy for me to think mathematically and logically. |
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| Author: | klopyrev [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Logic is both an inherent and developed ability. In some people, it is developed much more than in others. I grew up in a family full of computer related people. I've been programming since a very small age, since my mom was an informatics teacher. Thus, I have developed a rather strong logical sense. Many years later, I'm much older and my logic is very well developed, perhaps more than many other people. Almost everybody growing up develops a strong sense of something. Logic, art, sports, chatting on MSN for hours. After we do, we enjoy doing what we are able to do best. Being able to program or solve computer science, or math, problems brings a certain feeling of well-being. Getting the answer gives us all a warm feeling of self-admiration. If we were to start doing something else right now, we would not get that same feeling. Thus, we continue doing what we do best. Go up to a professional sports player and ask him why he plays sports. His initial response may be because it provides him with a lot of money, but money isn't what he started sports for. He was just good at it. Go up to any professional artist and pose the same question. You will get a less biased, but much the same answer. KL |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Interesting argument, wtd. I'd be inclined to agree, mostly because it's hard to disagree. CodeMonkey2000 @ Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:14 pm wrote: Well what draws me towards logic and CS is the simple fact that it's what I'm best at and that it is easy for me to think mathematically and logically.
Being drawn to a particular subject because that's what you're good at is a pretty bad reason for doing it. A much better reason is that you actually enjoy it. I'm not saying you don't, but you didn't say you did, so I thought I'd point it out. Edit: KL seems to argue that if we do something well, we enjoy it. Again, I'd argue against this. It's often true, but not always. Being good at math, say, means you can solve more advanced problems faster. This provides a greater sense of satisfaction, provided you get any satisfaction out of math. If you don't care about it, you'll get no self-satisfaction out of solving problems regardless of how many tough problems you can solve. |
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| Author: | Clayton [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Cervantes brings up a good point. I can do (and have done) some amazing presentations in front of large audiences. This however does not mean that I enjoy doing it. The very opposite is in fact true, I hate doing public presentations. I get extremely nervous and most often screw something up. This just ends up making me dislike presentations and such even more, as opposed to gaining self-satisfaction. |
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| Author: | haskell [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Personally, I probably have very little in common with any of you. I am more of an atheletic type(MVP Male Wrestling(twice), Male Athlete of the Year) at 6'1", 180 lbs, with a decently muscular body from ~3 years of working out regularly. I've never been bullied, and have a very wide area of friends(stoners, popular, geeks, "schitzos", etc...). Most people around(peers as well as older and younger people) know me when they see me. However, I am also somewhat of an academic(Highest Academic Average, Honour Roll), and love english, science(Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Earth Science), and math. I also live in a rural area. This gives be from 3:30 pm to 7:00 am from Monday-Friday with basically nothing to do. Which is where CS falls into my life, and most weekends I have something early morning to do, so that cuts off the regional house party/teen dance(both = "sickness"), giving me even more time to practice my craft, and to think. Since I am a very logical person, it leaves me thinking a lot of things logically through, and solviing questions I have, often with computations. Anyways, the point I am getting at is that people who aren't "emotionally and physically scarred" can be a CS/logic person. I mean, I really don't take anything besides my friends and science seriously. Everything else is just filler till university. Although the "type" of person who I am isn't really that common, or better yet, commonly well known, it is kind of wierd when people find out who you actually are. Possibly why many don't come forward in real life, just over a virtual one. |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
haskell @ Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:33 pm wrote: Personally, I probably have very little in common with any of you.
Funny. Your description sounds pretty damn close to me. The point of wtd's post was not to say that people who aren't "emotionally and physically scarred" (your words) can't be CS/math majors, but rather his point was that people who were bullied or otherwise hurt are more likely to become CS/math majors. |
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| Author: | haskell [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I don't know... All the people where I live who are bullied and hurt are headed for Biology or Earth Science... Might be because of locality though, as Computer Science is so uncommon that I doubt any of them have even heard of it... Generalizations appear to be generally incorrect. Perhaps a "Generalization Commitee" is in order? Just throwing it out there. And Cerv~, perhaps the CS guy of the future is that of the minority of the minority... Seems that most CS guys who I do meet are anything but "emotionally and physically scarred". Which amounts to ~30 people. Or maybe I'm just lucky? |
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| Author: | klopyrev [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Wow... emotionally or physically scared? That's disgraceful! Just because we like computer science doesn't mean we should completely forget about other things. I spend most of my time on computer science, because I have set a goal for myself to get to the IOI. Still, doesn't stop me from going out clubbing or to movies or just generally out with friends every weekend. KL |
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| Author: | BenLi [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
wtd said: Quote: I was not popular as a kid. I was frequently verbally and physically abused by my peers. But no matter how much they shunned me or beat me, they could never make two plus two equal three.
He does not hint at however, being scarred in any way. Yeah I was bullied too, but I was more mature than my peers and thus albe to shrug it off. We're not saying CS people are scarred at all. |
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| Author: | Cervantes [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
haskell wrote: And Cerv~, perhaps the CS guy of the future is that of the minority of the minority... Seems that most CS guys who I do meet are anything but "emotionally and physically scarred". Which amounts to ~30 people. Or maybe I'm just lucky? It's possible, but I think the words you're using to describe the kind of people wtd was originally talking about are too strong. The words I'm referring to are "emotionally and physically scarred". People can be bullied without being emotionally and physically scarred. Edit: Looks like two others made the same point I did without me knowing it. Oh well. |
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| Author: | Bobrobyn [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I was not popular as a child, either. I was bullied, and I didn't have a lot of friends (especially in school). Grade 8 and up were easier, I made a group of friends (4 of us in total) where we basically stayed friends until high school graduation. For some reason, I stood out in high school. Almost everyone knew my name/nickname/who I was. I was never able to figure that one out. I was always good at math. It was one of the subjects I liked the most. However, once I reached calculus, I started to hate math. Calculus basically ruined it for me. My finding computer science was really an accident: I took a computer science course, grade 10, and thought it was kind of dumb. We were learning Turing and making stuff go on the screen. My thoughts were "why can't I just use a word processor to make words go up on the screen?" I was ignorant, at the time, and ended up failing the course because I spent all my time surfing the web during class. I later took a computer engineering course, which I wasn't so good at. However, a little later in the course, we were required to do some programming in qbasic and use the parallel port to make motors and stuff run. That's the stuff I was good at, and my partner was good at the building part, so it was fun. I'd do the programming, he'd do the building. I started to ask questions that were more programming related, and I had people say: "this isn't a computer science class, you should really be asking those questions in one." So I took the grade 11 computer science class, and loved it (the grade 10 one wasn't a required). I was good at programming, got close to perfect on every assignment, and I loved it. After taking this course (which I ended up taking in grade 12), I knew what I wanted to go to university for. It was just a matter of coming back for an extra year and picking up the courses necessary for it -- as well as have fun taking grade 12 compsci. Now, math is still my weakness. However, I balance that out by being great at logic and computer science. How can I be good at computer science and not be good at math you ask? I don't know, it seems to be more common then you'd think. I'm still getting perfect on all my assignments -- and we just covered Linked Lists. I find them, as well as pointers, very intuitive, which is almost scarey. I also have a massive group of friends now, most of which are compsci majors. University is awesome. Anyways, I went into a little too much detail. *wonders off* |
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| Author: | klopyrev [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Sounds awesome! I'm glad that I made the right decision and didn't take grade 10 computer science. I went directly to grade 11, because grade 10 sounded like a stupid course. I can't wait for university though. Even though I can't say I lack friends right now and I can't say that I don't love my friends, but I still feel that they have completely different interests than me. None of my friends are interested in computer science. I can't wait to start university and meet all the people who like computer science as much as me. KL PS: I always found graphics stuff like putting words on the screen really pointless. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
You can't be good at CS and weak at math. If you think you are, then you're good at programming, not computer science. I would've done just math if the employment field was better. But for some reason I doubt google would've hire me without all the CS courses. |
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| Author: | haskell [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I wasn't being literal =\. It was just for emphasis. Though we Newfies are a poetic-esque breed(or is it blunt?), so I can see the confusion, but it just means that they were given a rough time. I have no CS friends around, hell, we don't even have a CS course of any kind. There is no programmers around, no one beyond the basics of computer use. I am also self-motivated, though I have no goals per-say, just interests. Its just really fun, something I enjoy and would love to do for life. You have both theoretical and practical uses, and each can be used to demonstrate the other. Its like a cycle... Computer Science is unique. It is the projection of the fundamentals that make up the mind of its skilled users. It is an art and a science, a trade and a degree... It is now and later. To answer the question as to "What brings us to logic, math and computer science?", I'd have to say its the broadness and wide accessibility of it. Computers are common, and anyone with a computer that is operational can partake in it. Then the curious delve within it and find CS. And voila, they are hooked for life. |
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| Author: | Bobrobyn [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
klopyrev @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:57 pm wrote: Sounds awesome! I'm glad that I made the right decision and didn't take grade 10 computer science. I went directly to grade 11, because grade 10 sounded like a stupid course. I can't wait for university though. Even though I can't say I lack friends right now and I can't say that I don't love my friends, but I still feel that they have completely different interests than me. None of my friends are interested in computer science. I can't wait to start university and meet all the people who like computer science as much as me.
KL PS: I always found graphics stuff like putting words on the screen really pointless. My friends in highschool had very little of the same interests as me. Our interests were the same in two areas: music, and some movies. That's pretty much it...and yet somehow, we were good friends. *shrugs* I feel somehow *closer* to my uni friends though, simply because we have more in common. However, having all those past experiences with my highschool friends also gives a feeling of "closeness". I'll never forget highschool. Andy @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:00 pm wrote: You can't be good at CS and weak at math. If you think you are, then you're good at programming, not computer science.
I would've done just math if the employment field was better. But for some reason I doubt google would've hire me without all the CS courses. I highly disagree. I know many students who are not good at math, and yet they are great at computer science. One of them is pursuing a graduate degree in computer science next year. This isn't saying they cannot do the math, or that I cannot do the math, because I can, it just takes a lot of work on my part. I have to put more effort in then some people do, who are just naturally good at it. Math can help with computer science, but it isn't everything. The logic behind computer science and math isn't exactly the same. In my mind, math is actually doing work, while computer science is conceptualizing how the work is done and telling the computer how to do the work. haskell @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:12 pm wrote: I wasn't being literal =\. It was just for emphasis. Though we Newfies are a poetic-esque breed(or is it blunt?), so I can see the confusion, but it just means that they were given a rough time.
I have no CS friends around, hell, we don't even have a CS course of any kind. There is no programmers around, no one beyond the basics of computer use. I am also self-motivated, though I have no goals per-say, just interests. Its just really fun, something I enjoy and would love to do for life. You have both theoretical and practical uses, and each can be used to demonstrate the other. Its like a cycle... Computer Science is unique. It is the projection of the fundamentals that make up the mind of its skilled users. It is an art and a science, a trade and a degree... It is now and later. To answer the question as to "What brings us to logic, math and computer science?", I'd have to say its the broadness and wide accessibility of it. Computers are common, and anyone with a computer that is operational can partake in it. Then the curious delve within it and find CS. And voila, they are hooked for life. You make CS sound like crack. And it's so true  |
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| Author: | Clayton [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Andy, your reply is way off. Just because someone isn't skilled at math, doesn't mean that they can't participate or do well in CS. Math is the mode of solving a problem, a tool if you will. Some people just can't get used to using some tools. CS is another tool with which to solve problems, one that many people can use even if they aren't that great at math. It's not the math itself that you need to be able to do well in CS. It's a logical train of thought in general that is extremely useful for CS. |
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| Author: | md [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I agree with Bobrobyn, Math and CS are not at all the same. It's definitely possible to be good at one and not the other. In fact, many of the best CS people dislike actual math and the best Math people should be kept away from CS lest they do something disastrous. |
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| Author: | haskell [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Nah... CS is more like crank(meth); its cheap to make, cheap to use, and once you've started, you'd rather die than stop. Math isn't central to CS... CS has its own theories. CS can be a means to solve mathematical problems, and math can be a means to solve a CS problem. But just with a logical train of thought, one can make the algorithms, and make them very efficient even without intense math knowledge. This is because math is logical, math is extended through observation. So, one who is logical and observational can do just as good as some one who studied that subject at solving the problems using their own means. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Okay, I'm too lazy to rebuttal to each you. So here is the general response 1. Notice that I said "You can't be good at CS and weak at math." Does this mean that you'll have to be a mathematical genius? NO! All this meant is that many of the foundations Computer Science is built upon is heavily borrowed from mathematics. A mathematician may not be able to program, but he/she could still rip through algorithmic problems. 2. Out of the people who answered, how many have taken an algorithm course? As far as i know, only md. So before you make judgment on what CS is, look it up! Computer Science is not programming! Likewise, Computer Scientists aren't all Software Engineers. 3. I have yet known any famous computer scientists that dislike mathematics. If you find some, please post here. 4. There is a reason why Computer Science is part of the MATH faculty in most prestigious schools. 5. 4/5 people on the Waterloo ACM team are in Math, and I don't mean CS Math, but pure math, combinatorics, etc. and the 5th is a software engineer. 6. Doing a masters degree means nothing. It doesn't make you a good computer scientist. My friend, who was the leader of Cal Tech's ACM team graduated last April, and is now working at Microsoft, earning MORE money than most people with masters degrees. Oh and guess what, he's a genius at math. Go figure. 7. I also know people who are gradating with an CS degree but aren't spectacular at math. And guess what? They end up as Software Engineers. Which again, is not a Computer Scientist! |
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| Author: | Clayton [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Why don't you get down off your high horse and take a look through another's eyes? Just because you go to Waterloo and have taken such and such a course does not make you a better person or so much more right. Andy wrote: 1. Notice that I said "You can't be good at CS and weak at math." Does this mean that you'll have to be a mathematical genius? NO! All this meant is that many of the foundations Computer Science is built upon is heavily borrowed from mathematics. A mathematician may not be able to program, but he/she could still rip through algorithmic problems
Again, math is only the tool. If you have a good strong logical mind, you should be able to figure a given problem out. Not everything in CS is about math. Andy wrote: 2. Out of the people who answered, how many have taken an algorithm course? As far as i know, only md. So before you make judgment on what CS is, look it up! Computer Science is not programming! Likewise, Computer Scientists aren't all Software Engineers.
Quite honestly, who gives a shit? A class is just that, a class. Sure some (most) of us don't have access to a class because we're not so 1337 as to be in University, but some of us do in fact read books you know. Andy wrote: 3. I have yet known any famous computer scientists that dislike mathematics. If you find some, please post here.
Please, tell me where any of us has said anything of that sort in this thread. Just because you're not good at something doesn't mean you can't enjoy/like it. Andy wrote: 5. 4/5 people on the Waterloo ACM team are in Math, and I don't mean CS Math, but pure math, combinatorics, etc. and the 5th is a software engineer.
Good for them. I'm sure any other year that team could be made up of 4 CS students and a Math student. You can't base something off of one year alone. Andy wrote: 6. Doing a masters degree means nothing. It doesn't make you a good computer scientist. My friend, who was the leader of Cal Tech's ACM team graduated last April, and is now working at Microsoft, earning MORE money than most people with masters degrees. Oh and guess what, he's a genius at math. Go figure.
Nor does taking some algorithms course. The same material could be learned at home through books and the internet. Andy wrote: 7. I also know people who are gradating with an CS degree but aren't spectacular at math. And guess what? They end up as Software Engineers. Which again, is not a Computer Scientist!
Have you thought maybe they decided to go into Software Engineering? Just because something happens to a few people, it doesn't mean that it's going to happen to everyone. |
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| Author: | Skynet [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
I have opinions about the above topic, but in the interest of keeping this thread on track, I'll hold them. I always preferred math in HS because the answers were always so clear and undisputed. I didn't like the idea of being judged for my "opinion", when math is either wrong or right. Once I got into university and realized that my math courses (which is less theoretical than the CS math, even) were no longer so clear, I still liked seeing an equation express something interesting which clearly expresses a real-world behaviour. I believe the math behind AM modulation last term was the last time I saw this. There's also the fact that you can prove via mathematics that you can shake a car to pieces with a small precise amount of effort...that's a good one. As for CS, it's not my degree, but solving problems is always a good feeling, no matter what tools I'm using. Since I do robotics for school and soon for a living, I feel that I can't ignore something which is a key aspect of the more complex autonomous systems...it would be shortsighted. Plus, certain topics are in my field just as much as they're in CS, so I occasionally have to delve into them. (Image processing, decision control, path planning, real-time systems, etc) After all, some problems are better solved in software than in hardware. |
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| Author: | wtd [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
And the neat thing about CS and math is that you can get to a point where you can say "it's done!" It might take awhile, and it might not be easy, but you can get there. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Freakman wrote: Why don't you get down off your high horse and take a look through another's eyes? Just because you go to Waterloo and have taken such and such a course does not make you a better person or so much more right.
no, but it does make me less ignorant about what i'm talking about. Freakman wrote: Again, math is only the tool. If you have a good strong logical mind, you should be able to figure a given problem out. Not everything in CS is about math.
Math isn't just about calculations, and CS isnt just about problem solving. Like I said, read up more on CS then argue. Freakman wrote: Quite honestly, who gives a shit? A class is just that, a class. Sure some (most) of us don't have access to a class because we're not so 1337 as to be in University, but some of us do in fact read books you know. And How much do you know about how the algorithms are invented? Using an formula doesn't make one a mathematician, so what makes you think using an algorithm makes you a computer scientist? Freakman wrote: Please, tell me where any of us has said anything of that sort in this thread. Just because you're not good at something doesn't mean you can't enjoy/like it. Once again, if you're not good at math, you're not a mathematician. Freakman wrote: Good for them. I'm sure any other year that team could be made up of 4 CS students and a Math student. You can't base something off of one year alone. and which year was that? Freakman wrote: Nor does taking some algorithms course. The same material could be learned at home through books and the internet. sure it can, so tell me, how much do you know about inventing algorithms Freakman wrote: Have you thought maybe they decided to go into Software Engineering? Just because something happens to a few people, it doesn't mean that it's going to happen to everyone. Yeah, they go into Software Engineering because either they're not interested, or capable of becoming computer scientists. Look, I don't give a damn about what you think. I'm here to present my views, if you don't like them, stfu. I will no longer check this topic, so keep your insults to yourself. |
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| Author: | BenLi [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
alright people, lets not get defensive now |
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| Author: | md [ Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Andy @ 2007-03-20, 10:12 pm wrote: Freakman wrote: Why don't you get down off your high horse and take a look through another's eyes? Just because you go to Waterloo and have taken such and such a course does not make you a better person or so much more right.
no, but it does make me less ignorant about what i'm talking about. Andy @ 2007-03-20, 10:12 pm wrote: Freakman wrote: Again, math is only the tool. If you have a good strong logical mind, you should be able to figure a given problem out. Not everything in CS is about math.
Math isn't just about calculations, and CS isnt just about problem solving. Like I said, read up more on CS then argue. Andy @ 2007-03-20, 10:12 pm wrote: Freakman wrote: Quite honestly, who gives a shit? A class is just that, a class. Sure some (most) of us don't have access to a class because we're not so 1337 as to be in University, but some of us do in fact read books you know. And How much do you know about how the algorithms are invented? Using an formula doesn't make one a mathematician, so what makes you think using an algorithm makes you a computer scientist? Freakman wrote: Please, tell me where any of us has said anything of that sort in this thread. Just because you're not good at something doesn't mean you can't enjoy/like it. Once again, if you're not good at math, you're not a mathematician. Arguably if you do math, no matter how poor you are at it and how much you hate it, you are a mathematician. Likewise if you do CS work then you are a computer scientist (which of course is a completely bogus title). In actuality knowing how an algorithm came to exist, or who invented it really doesn't matter. If you know how to make use of it in a way that gets you a solution to a problem then that's good enough. Knowing what spurred the development of a particular algorithm might give you insight into why it works the way it does or where to use it, but that's not the only way of knowing such things. Oh, and you can definitely enjoy things you suck at. I love music, but I cannot play a thing; I enjoy watching people dance, but I would never do it myself. |
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| Author: | Brightguy [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
You're just arguing over a definitional issue; you could include programming or designing hardware as computer science, although I usually don't think of it like that. At its heart computer science has nothing to do with computers. md @ Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:54 pm wrote: Arguably if you do math, no matter how poor you are at it and how much you hate it, you are a mathematician.
Of course you could define it like that, but I do not know of anyone who uses it in that way. For example an engineer could use math every day (as the means to an end) but is not considered a mathematician. |
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| Author: | haskell [ Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RE:What brings us to logic, math and computer science? |
Technically, any one who practices any degree of Science is a Scientist. The same can be said about math, and possibly even CS. That doesn't mean you are considered by others to be it, but by a really stupid technicality, you are. Anyways, this has just turned into people being really defensive over nothing. The biggest dumbasses are the ones who keep at it until everyone is ticked off. Just drop it already =\. |
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