Do not test the LORD your God

well, very sad story indeed. All im going to say is that, even though im a hindu......

For all the people taking themselves way too seriously, let me just say that I posted this in a spirit of humor. I myself am an atheist, but I do not believe the existence of any god or gods can be proven or disproven, even with lions.

Surely the existance of god can be proven with lions!

Surely it can. We just need someone to argue that lions are intelligently designed.

More intelligently than zoo-goers in Kiev, apparently.

Efficiency vs. Attractiveness : What is in the end the more important factor?

Efficiency vs. Attractiveness

What is in the end the more important factor?

I'm not fond of attributing all of human endeavor to instinctual mating drives.

Humans like to think that because its the easiest way to put us above animals. Though really, everything we do is driven by primitive urges. Wars are all about fighting to be the "alpha male", if you will.

As for things like art, or drama, I personally don't see anything fancy about them at all, which, though it may seem shallow, kind of makes me wonder about how many people are just making up whatever they see in drama or art just to fit in. As far as fitting in goes, humans work together as a pack in order to get food / mates. If you don't fit in, you don't get either easily.

Haha, I dont like attributing all of the worlds everything to evolution, and I like to put myself above animals.

But what is consciousness and self-awareness. It is known that certain organisms lack self awareness (They dont know they exist),

but how do we know only humans are aware...?

Isnt imagination really just the ability to simulate a situation beforehand, most likely to improve upon mistakes or run throught social interactions?

I mean sure we use imagination for much more, but thats the side effect. Its like orgasm is used to encourage copulation, but there is the side effect of *********ion or oral sex etc.

It is said that the human brain is only as developed as it is because we are a very social people.

We need to remember the behaviours of many different people, remember our place, and remember who to trust, and who will backstab you.

Things dont always come about in the most efficient ways.

Not only is it survival of the fittest, but also the luckiest.

Situations favor certain things, or sometimes, just dont punish them. Basically its survival of whatever survives, but obviously those that have the will to survive and the abilities to aid this survival will have the tendency to survive.

Of course, primal urges cant be the only factor all the time. Altruism can be explained, (perhaps you are actually furthering your well being as well), but also societies with altruistic members tend to thrive, and do better than societes who compete amongst themselves, thus these societies survive, and so we are left with mostly nice people (i hope). There will always be exploiters who take advantage of the short term, by exploiting.

Art has always had a powerful effect on human life. Although a bit of it is fitting in

, it could also be related to the handicap idea (theory?). If two men race, and they tie... but one of them was carrying a sack of potatoes. Obviously you see the guy with the sack of potatoes as superior since he accomplished the same as the other guy, but with a heavy load. Of course while you can have varying degrees of health, otherwise survival is survival, and basically everyone who is alive is almost tied. So of course the ones with a slight handicap are favored as the stronger ones. This explains things such as antlers, no bones in human ***** etc. If one guy is doing just as well as another guy, but he has the spare time to make pretty things, he is probably better at what hes doing.

So yeah. my thoughts. feel free to completely rebuke them but whatever.

You say you do not put you'r self above animals yet you do.

If hummans where the same as aniamals we whould not have contioness and slef awerness.

???

The only thing humans have over (some) other animals is the opposable thumb. Give dolphins that advantage and the human species would be royally boned.

Also i think it is clear that what spreaetes hummans from animals is self awerness and a fully devlopedt continess. I very much doubth that dolphins understand what is above the waters inwitch they live.

If it sees itself in a mirror, it won't know that the reflection is itself, and it will think the reflection is another ant.

well, if that rendered persona was exactly like you in every way, one would have to assume that it was a "reflection" (for want of a better word) of him/herself/it.

chrispminis wrote:
Haha, I dont like attributing all of the worlds everything to evolution, and I like to put myself above animals.


Then why are you using them? Why aren't you living in the forest some where wearing nohting and living off the land only? You say you do not put you'r self above animals yet you do. I also bet you have a harder time killing a human then an animal.

chrispminis wrote:

But what is consciousness and self-awareness. It is known that certain organisms lack self awareness (They dont know they exist),


Aucatly almost every organisms on this earth other then hummans dose not have self awareness. There may be only 2 epections and thos are very big maybes witch i disargea with.

chrispminis wrote:

but how do we know only humans are aware...?


The fact that you can ask that proves that we are.

chrispminis wrote:

Isnt imagination really just the ability to simulate a situation beforehand, most likely to improve upon mistakes or run throught social interactions?


Nope, if anything that whould be memeory. But even memeory is not just that.

chrispminis wrote:

I mean sure we use imagination for much more, but thats the side effect. Its like orgasm is used to encourage copulation, but there is the side effect of *********ion or oral sex etc.


Ummmm, no. Imagination is not a side effect and an orgasm function is not sex but to interract with the pysical world. The fact that we have sexual acts that can not resulet in copulation should prove that we are difrent form animals alone. It is not a side effect. A side effects is an unintenataly resoutle of somthing unrealed. This is both inintenal and realted to humanas have an self awwerness.

chrispminis wrote:

It is said that the human brain is only as developed as it is because we are a very social people.


Who says this? And if it is ture it is assuming evlepotion is ture witch you just put down at the top.

chrispminis wrote:

We need to remember the behaviours of many different people, remember our place, and remember who to trust, and who will backstab you.


Before hummans had a fullly devopleted self awserness and contioness this was true. But even then memeory was used for much much more. Simpely memeory is a tool, it's exsitance alone dose not prove anything about primeal urges but it's useage dose. I could list of 10000s of examples of the usages of memeory that do not help in surivial in any way. For example i just studtey for my mid term in world relgiones, this corses is not even part of my main progam and will not help or server my primral urges in any way. In fact studying for it goses agist them.

chrispminis wrote:

Things dont always come about in the most efficient ways.


Aucatly they usesly do in the end, we just are not there yet nessarly. But if you look at the world and all of it's systems both small and large it is very effcient with all things considered.

chrispminis wrote:

Not only is it survival of the fittest, but also the luckiest.


In reality there is no such thing as luck, or even randomness. This is why computers have a very hard time making turely random numbers. Our best atmptes at random numbers have been using sound in a room or pic of a laval lamp. But even thess are prictictable with enouth math.

chrispminis wrote:

Situations favor certain things, or sometimes, just dont punish them. Basically its survival of whatever survives, but obviously those that have the will to survive and the abilities to aid this survival will have the tendency to survive.


Wow you just conurdicted your self so many times in there and basiclky just side "survival of the fittest". Tho we should think about what darwine ment by "fittest", he did not simpley mean the strongest pysical but the ones able to apatated best to the everment at hand.

chrispminis wrote:

Of course, primal urges cant be the only factor all the time. Altruism can be explained, (perhaps you are actually furthering your well being as well), but also societies with altruistic members tend to thrive, and do better than societes who compete amongst themselves, thus these societies survive, and so we are left with mostly nice people (i hope). There will always be exploiters who take advantage of the short term, by exploiting.


What??? You just totaly undermind your own point now......

chrispminis wrote:

Art has always had a powerful effect on human life. Although a bit of it is fitting in


How is it fitting in? Rarely do i see aritests on t.v. or put above the likes of athletes and actors. In fact most artests don't fit in to socitey well at all. And why whould making art help surival at all? If anything it goses agested the primal urges.

chrispminis wrote:

, it could also be related to the handicap idea (theory?). If two men race, and they tie... but one of them was carrying a sack of potatoes. Obviously you see the guy with the sack of potatoes as superior since he accomplished the same as the other guy, but with a heavy load. Of course while you can have varying degrees of health, otherwise survival is survival, and basically everyone who is alive is almost tied. So of course the ones with a slight handicap are favored as the stronger ones. This explains things such as antlers, no bones in human ***** etc. If one guy is doing just as well as another guy, but he has the spare time to make pretty things, he is probably better at what hes doing.


Not only did that not have anything to do with "fiting in with art", it had no point relavent to this debate and was just random.

chrispminis wrote:

So yeah. my thoughts. feel free to completely rebuke them but whatever.


I find it funny that you can aruge what you do when there have been masive movments in the past and prensent to free ones self of primeal urges completly. I find it hard to blive that we are just driven by primeal urges when millions can blive in the teachings of buddhaism, jainism and hinduism and many others with all teach agisted what you are saying.