Microsoft has been taking a lot of crap from the zealot hordes for doing this exact same thing. It'll be interesting to see how the masses react to their precious Google doing something similar
Computer Science Canada Shall we file this under "Google is evil"? |
| Author: | bugzpodder [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Shall we file this under "Google is evil"? |
http://www.yahoo.com/s/269324 |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:49 pm ] |
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Microsoft has been taking a lot of crap from the zealot hordes for doing this exact same thing. It'll be interesting to see how the masses react to their precious Google doing something similar |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:51 pm ] |
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DOWN WITH GOOGLE! DOWN WITH GOOGLE! DOWN WITH GOOGLE! |
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| Author: | Dan [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:15 am ] |
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I am very dispointed in google for this but i guses it is ether they make a censored address or all of them are blocked by china isps. Tho in reality it whould be imposable to turly censor anything b/c of the existance of proxy servers. Not only do i think almost all infromation should be free and freely accesabl to all human kind i think that a non cesnored versron should be aviable freely to every one as well. Some of the orgianl designers of the net had some crazy ideas to put it on a stailite that whould beam it down to erath free for all to see. Tho this is reather unpratical to aucatly put it on a stealite but i like the idea of the free boradcast of it. I think that one day the net will evelole in to a data base of all humman knoagle and will be beamed to every conore of the erath simlar to how gps singals are range wise but using a wifi like singal (deftaly not going to be wifi tho). |
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| Author: | Martin [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:01 am ] |
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Some more bullshit from Corporate America. Do the companies have to stand for that? Of course not. China wants to come out and be a real country for a change. They actually want their economy to grow, and they are setting themselves up quite well to do it. And they know that they need international support if they want to get anywhere with it. If Microsoft, Yahoo and Google all firmly said, "No. We won't support government oppression" do you think that China would have told these multi-billion dollar corporations to go home? Of course not. But alas, as has been proved again, the almighty dollar is worth more than human rights. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:21 pm ] |
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actually, the truth is China will live off baidu (their own search engine), their own free webmail (10gig?), and pirated copies of XP |
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| Author: | md [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:57 pm ] |
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Um... you do realize that google has been participating in self-censoring for a while now... as has Microsoft and Yahoo, and all other major search engines. Unless google is willing to loose out on the huge market that is china it's not something they can refuse to do. Even then, it's not exactly evil... it's not up to north american standards of free speach maybe, but it's not north america. There have been lots of stories recently about hwo google isn't nearly as good as people think, and how it's really just as evil as everyone else. The truth is that they are a business. They exist to make money. Fortunately their controlling interests are now well off and don't need the money that badly, but google still is in business to keep it's market share and increase it hwoever they can. Usually this is in moderately good ways, but not always. If you compare Google to Yahoo, or Microsoft; really any company these days, you'll see that Google is actually a rather good company given it's rivals. It definitely doesn't do nearly as much evil as it could (and it's competitors do). Oh, BTW, Yahoo (where the story is from) and Microsoft actually started censoring themselves long before google did. |
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| Author: | codemage [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:57 pm ] |
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I visited the Google China site (www.google.cn), and I was able to look up and access just about every possible politically taboo topic I could think of. In fact, far more sites were blocked out by my employer's filtering software than Google China. 
And yes... I've made them aware of that bit of trivia. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:38 pm ] |
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cornflake ur opinions are extremely biased. google has its own agendas, for example to profit at MS and Yahoo's expense. It is common pratice and hence that doesnt make them any less evil. Obviously google is not here to promote democracy but to make a profit, like every one else whos not open source. codemage, ur searching the wrong things. try tianmen square massacure, falun gong, porn, banned books, dali lama, taiwan independence and democracy, state corruption, mining death (yes, chinese mines explodes and kills off far more people than those ones reported in north america recently), etc... |
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| Author: | Dan [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:38 pm ] |
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They blocked the dali lama? How rude, he is a nice guy. And yes i do know why they do that and the histroy behind it so pleas do not make any crazy posts about it =p Hey i think this is my 1st small font post! Go me! |
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| Author: | md [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:45 pm ] |
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bugzpodder wrote: cornflake ur opinions are extremely biased. google has its own agendas, for example to profit at MS and Yahoo's expense. It is common pratice and hence that doesnt make them any less evil. Obviously google is not here to promote democracy but to make a profit, like every one else whos not open source.
Umm... wha? My "opinions" are actually "facts", and are not at all biased. Google == business. Businesses exist for hte purpose of making money. Surely you haven't forgotten about how profitable google really is? People seem to forget that Google is not a search company, but an advertising company. They sell advertising space to advertisers. In order to get people to follow these adds they put lots of effort into showing relavent adds to people, and to attracting people to their website to see the adds. It just so happens that their method of doing so is with a very well engineered search engine, as well as their newer news and mail facilities. The key is that these are means to advertising, which makes google and it's share holders money. Google is not evil. They are just really good at making money. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:19 pm ] |
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you are biased not in how u view google which i fully agrees with, but in which how u perceives ms and yahoo as "evil" and google as "not evil" |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:59 pm ] |
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bugzpodder wrote: codemage, ur searching the wrong things. try tianmen square massacure, falun gong, porn, banned books, dali lama, taiwan independence and democracy, state corruption, mining death (yes, chinese mines explodes and kills off far more people than those ones reported in north america recently), etc...
Actually, every single one of those things works just fine. Here are some results returned using Google China. Additionally, they were all on the FRONT PAGE of results. Quote: Phills Travel Photos - Last additions/Tienman Square - [ 翻译此页 BETA ]
Tienman Square. this is where all the students tragically died at the hangs of the Chinese Govt. Quote: 15 Falun Gong Activists Sentenced to Jail & Fine in Singapore ... - [ 翻译此页 BETA ]
15 Falun Gong Activists Sentenced to Jail & Fine in Singapore (2001-03-30). 2003/10/24. Singapore Magistrate Court Thursday imposed sentences to 15 Falun Gong convicts under the charges of illegal assembly and obstruction to police duty. Judge ... Quote: Sora Aoi - Asian Idol Gallery » Kineda - [ 翻译此页 BETA ]
Kineda's Idol of the Day is Sora Aoi. Sora Aoi was born on Novermber 11, 1983 in Japan. Sora Aoi was born in Japan with a small stature at 5′1″ but was an instant success in the photobook market due to her lusty curves and innocent face ... Quote: His Holiness The Dalai Lama - [ 翻译此页 BETA ]
From the official site of the Government Of Tibet In Exile. Provides a biography, bibliography, list of awards won, prayers, lectures and statements. Quote: >>> AsiaNews.it <<< Coal mining death toll rises by 20pc - [ 翻译此页 BETA ] 6 April, 2005. CHINA. Coal mining death toll rises by 20pc. Beijing (AsiaNews/Agencies) - The death toll from coal mine accidents on the mainland rose 20.8 per cent in the first quarter to 1113, officials announced yesterday. ... www.asianews.it/dos.php?l=en&dos=&art=2971 - 14k - 网页快照 - 类似网页 Quote: The victims of china corruption![ 繁体 ] ... The victims of china corruption! 所有回复 | 加回复 | 加新贴 | 本论坛主页 作者: wfpin 于2003 年8 月31 日12:23:23 (219.145.194.143). The victims of china corruption! We are from Ankang city of Shaanxi province in mainland of China . We are the ... www.bbsone.com/html.php?file=bbs/life/b5/messages/386.htm - 8k - 补充材料 - 网页快照 - 类似网页 China Corruption - [ 翻译此页 BETA ] China Corruption. China Corruption. Corruption is probably the biggest danger for a traveler or tourist. ... China, power, Mexico, definition, Malaysia, India, Vanuatu, customs, church, Fiji, French, France, Tonga,oil for food corruption, bribery ... www.hobotraveler.com/co5chinacorruption.php?PHPSESSID=71315cdf84f6bd4a35020f17b9bd916a - 46k - 补充材料 - 网页快照 - 类似网页 Many of those links are downright critical of the Chinese government. There was tons of info on the Tienman Square Massacre. There was info on China's persecution of Falun Gong practitioners. There was info on the invasion of Tibet. There was info on Chinese government corruption. Heck, there was info on Japanese porn stars (and more than just info). All in all, I'd say Google's policy of censure hasn't begun yet. Or if it has, they're really doing a crappy job of it. |
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| Author: | md [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:31 pm ] |
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bugzpodder wrote: you are biased not in how u view google which i fully agrees with, but in which how u perceives ms and yahoo as "evil" and google as "not evil"
First, please learn to type "you" instead of "u" consistantly. It makes things so much nicer. Second, Microsoft and Yahoo have done more things that were a person to do them would be called "evil" then google. Microsoft's business tacticts are not the subject of this thread, but if you take some time and look at them you'll find that they are rather abusive. And Yahoo has done some pretty flaky things in the past too. There is no opinion here, simply a cold hard look at what each of the companies has done in relation to societies values of good and evil. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:41 pm ] |
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You know you can always back it up, provide examples and make your statements irrefutable. Otherwise, it would be safe to ignore.  |
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| Author: | md [ Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:31 am ] |
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Yeah yeah... examples... I would if I could pull a specific example out of the clutter that is my mind. It's worse given that I just finished reading "Cryptonomicon"... did I mention I started reading it last night? 
Hikaru, could it be that the filter is based upon IP addresses? Or maybe even tied to the servers that are actually in china? There is no reason why google can't limit it's censoring to queries that are coming from computers physically located in China  |
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| Author: | Boo-chan [ Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:46 am ] |
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For an example of the censoring that is in place: http://blog.outer-court.com/censored/ |
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| Author: | Mazer [ Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:58 am ] |
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China doesn't allow bolded text in search results? Weird! |
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| Author: | Boo-chan [ Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:03 am ] |
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From what I gather from what I've read, Google's reasoning is that by doing the censoring themselves they let the user know that the search results are being censoring, where as if the government was doing it then the user wouldn't be informed. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:46 pm ] |
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Cornflake wrote: bugzpodder wrote: you are biased not in how u view google which i fully agrees with, but in which how u perceives ms and yahoo as "evil" and google as "not evil"
First, please learn to type "you" instead of "u" consistantly. It makes things so much nicer. Second, Microsoft and Yahoo have done more things that were a person to do them would be called "evil" then google. Microsoft's business tacticts are not the subject of this thread, but if you take some time and look at them you'll find that they are rather abusive. And Yahoo has done some pretty flaky things in the past too. There is no opinion here, simply a cold hard look at what each of the companies has done in relation to societies values of good and evil. I fully realize MS and yahoo's past doings and google isn't far behind them. every company has being criticized in one way or another due to their business practices, and it makes not more or less evil, but more or less the same. ps I like typing 'u' instead of 'you' b/c i am not using a dvorak keyboard and typing three letters ('y', 'o', 'u') using my right hand all the time is discomforting. Hikaru: hmm then what the hell is google censoring... i assumed those topics were subjected to sensorship... |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:44 pm ] |
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Boo-chan wrote: For an example of the censoring that is in place:
http://blog.outer-court.com/censored/ That link is wierd. Half of the examples are simply not examples (like the f-word one... China returned just as many results as America's). Others are simply stupid -- for example, searching 'peacehall dot com'. I seriously doubt 'dot' means anything in Chinese. Search just 'peacehall' on Google China and you WILL get relevant results.. That blog post is suspicious. It seems to be intentionally trying to frame it so that the censoring is worse than it really is. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:12 am ] |
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link  --the real censorship. Notice how some "Topics" are missing! Oh wait, nvm
cool. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:22 am ] |
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Ok for some darn reason, not everything gets translated. |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:56 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: Ok for some darn reason, not everything gets translated.
Isn't it just the words that either are technical terms (i.e Java, which has no Chinese translation) or misspelled words? (i.e 'submited', which should be 'submitted')? |
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| Author: | md [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:32 pm ] |
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If you use the translator to see individual topics on compsci it seems that nothing is translated... |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:46 pm ] |
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Cornflake wrote: If you use the translator to see individual topics on compsci it seems that nothing is translated...
Really? It's all showing up translated for me. For example, here's your post as the translation engine shows it: Quote: 如果 你使用译者看各自的题目在compsci 看起来无事被翻译 ...
Except for the word 'compsci' which isnt a real word, the rest of it was translated. Wierd that it works for some of us and not others ... |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:11 pm ] |
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Look at some of our longer topics.. like the one on suicide-law etc.. look at some of the pages in between, i.e. not too far to the end, or too close to the beginning. Most of the posts there are not translated. |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:34 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: Look at some of our longer topics.. like the one on suicide-law etc.. look at some of the pages in between, i.e. not too far to the end, or too close to the beginning.
Most of the posts there are not translated. The one on suicide-law translates perfectly as well. Here is the first post of that thread as it appears to me: Quote: 张贴 : Wed 2006 年1月18 日, 上午3:04 岗位主题 : 高等法院维护俄勒冈assisted-suicide 法律 回复与摘引
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10891536 / 头脑清楚一次小 微小瞥见在美国。 微笑 Cuss 和商谈。 _________________ 马丁说: 你知道 CompSci 有一wiki 寻找一个逗人喜爱的女孩与一辆快速汽车。送汽车图片。 And I also looked at a bunch of different threads, even from different pages than just the first. They ALL translate fine. Except for misspelled words. If you want a screenshot for me to prove it I'll do that too. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:36 pm ] |
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Try page 24 on that thread.,.. scroll way down. |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:39 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: Try page 24 on that thread.,.. scroll way down.
The suicide-law topic only has 8 pages, so I'll assume you meant the evolution thread, which is the only one that has more than 24 pages. And it works too. Here's the first post on the 24th page. Quote: 新岗位 张贴: Wed 2006 年1月11 日, 下午 6:17 岗位主题: 回复与摘引
Geminias 写道: 玉米片: 摘引 : 让我们考虑其它可能性。它能是人们简单地不 喜欢(或听) 什么你说因为它是错误(和愚笨的)? 它有非常一点, 如 果任何东西, 做与你是认为某事就其本身关于推理的你的水平) 的 creationist (虽则; 它是更多你不好似知道什么你正在谈论。与醒目无能结合掌握关键英语概念(做了你甚而读你的第二个句子在那则 摘引?!) 它倾向于使读你的岗位困难和完全地无意义。你对辩论贡献无事除了误传和个人攻击。 " 巨大精神总遇到猛烈反对从平庸头脑。" 阿尔伯特 Einstein 它好似我必须再结合, 虽然我承认, 它坚硬放弃, 许多乐 趣lol 。 对Geminias: 无论如何, 标榜我的喜爱摘引的当中一个不 帮助你的案件。Im 害怕说你有在不读上什么的一种天分你应该读。你坚持"事实" 不幸地不真实。i, 并且不提供道歉这时及时, 没有 需要, 因为你坚持" 改正" 我的差错, 并且有些事实, 与差错和你自己的假的信息。我的忠告对你, 是仔细地读, 继续虚心其它想法 , 和读如果你不肯定。正因为你相信和垂悬对一个想法为你的整个 生活, 不意味它可能用比较准确的信息被替换。垂悬对obselete 或 不确切信息, 能危害你反而在长期, 这不是仅提到中子事或者, 正义一般忠告。用这样, 理论和科学进步。阿尔伯特Einstein 他自 己, 经常问, 和甚而试图反驳他自己工作, 和有雍容承认他的差错 。 对玉米片: 真正地? Thats 相当印象深刻。是它安全假设 你是MENSA 的成员? 我有总想加入, 只是从未接受正式考试, 因为 我真正地不想发现im 不非常聪明lol 。我的自我没有能够处置它。 对任 何人, 主要Dan: 这个原因是人们有一个倾向尝试和着手应付别人的 论据由nitpicking 于一点点或没有相关性事, 这表面上破坏这个论 据的可信度虽然不均匀提及主要概念。最佳的辩论者, 象玉米片, 我同意是最佳, 着手应付主要概念, 而不是让论据担心与狭窄回击 , bs, 和和毫不相关信息, 虽然它说服这些其次不需要扫视。 _________________ 加入! 赢取位! 显示! 逻辑! 证明你 的价值! 你怎么堆积? Turing 岩石, 剪刀, 纸比赛。 http://www.compsci.ca/v2/viewtopic.php?t=10853 So so far, still nobody has managed to give any example of censoring. |
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| Author: | rizzix [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:44 pm ] |
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first post yea, have you scrolled down? |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:47 pm ] |
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rizzix wrote: first post yea, have you scrolled down?
Ah, okay. I see what you mean now. However, that is not censoring. That's probably just a bug in the board's HTML that makes the engine not recognize it as text but as a tag. Go use Google Translate to translate the page into Portugese, or Italian, or French, or any language you want, and you'll see it stops translating the page at exactly the same spot. Unless Google is also censoring Germany, France, Italy, Portugal, Brazil, etc.  |
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| Author: | codemage [ Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:34 am ] |
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Google is censoring Germany and France. They filter out sites that deal with anti-sematism and nazi paraphanalia. Oh... and the newest dirt on the China filters; they are easily circumvented by making spelling mistakes. Tianamen square masacre, anyone? |
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| Author: | md [ Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:51 pm ] |
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Anyone stop th think that while the Google might be censoring it's searches, it's filtering techniques are craptacular on purpose? The chinese government could easily filter out things in between google and chinese users, so by censoring itself google get's itself inside that wall. Once it's there it can be used easily but many more people, and if they can easily bypass googles filters (much easier then the great firewall of china) then that means more people in china will have acess to information that otherwise wouldn't be available to them. Maybe google is being good after all. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:02 pm ] |
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cornflake is right.. you guys dont understand how the internet system works in china. all connections passes through the chinese government's gateways, and the packets are examined. doesnt matter if the server is inside or outside, if your using the internet, you're being watched. |
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| Author: | Amailer [ Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:23 pm ] |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4650158.stm  Read the comments, wow that is... bs... absolutely no freedom |
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| Author: | Hikaru79 [ Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:30 pm ] |
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Amailer wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4650158.stm
Read the comments, wow that is... bs... absolutely no freedomYeah. My girlfriend left China only a few years ago. She spent about 12 years there, and yet she found out about the Tienman Square Massacre a few months ago, as it was part of her classmate's history project (in Canada). She was shocked -- she had never heard of this before. It's practically a household word here, but a lot of the younger people in China who weren't there when it happened simply have never heard of it. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:11 am ] |
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i hope you guys do realize that the freedom of speech will do china more harm then good right? the country is way too populated, and the vast majority of the people there are uneducated... its the same reason why democracy wont work in china |
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| Author: | md [ Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:30 am ] |
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Andy wrote: i hope you guys do realize that the freedom of speech will do china more harm then good right? the country is way too populated, and the vast majority of the people there are uneducated... its the same reason why democracy wont work in china
Of course! But seeing as how giving in to the censoring is apparently evil, I just feel like pointing out that it's not nessessarily so. It's just more google bashing. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:19 am ] |
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lol... i guess google just wants business... baidu was the fastest growing search engine last year.. the vast majority of chinese people never even heard of google, baidu is all they use and need |
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| Author: | codemage [ Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:05 am ] |
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It's an emerging market though. Most people in China haven't even heard of search engines, period. Google is banking on better service, and the booming usage of the internet in Asia to clinch a new target market. |
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| Author: | Andy [ Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:45 am ] |
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codemage wrote: It's an emerging market though. Most people in China haven't even heard of search engines, period. Google is banking on better service, and the booming usage of the internet in Asia.
Most people in china only heard of TVs in the past decade.. they barely understand what a computer does.. but for those who have access to the internet, they've heard of baidu. well everybody that had a modem has internet in china since dial up is free. but phone usage is not |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:53 pm ] |
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Andy wrote: i hope you guys do realize that the freedom of speech will do china more harm then good right? the country is way too populated, and the vast majority of the people there are uneducated... its the same reason why democracy wont work in china
Andy this and what u said after are some worst bs i've heard in a long time. this is no different in saying that most waterloo students are stupid idiots. do me a favour, stop advocating your ignorance and stupidity. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:49 pm ] |
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I checked out an employer information session offered by google @ 'loo. I can just feel the exceptional arrogance and ignorance shown by the recruiters/engineers there. They think google is God, when in truth there is none. Comments like "nobody leaves google" is simply detestable. Only fools think they are Gods. I, for one, certainly aren't a fool. |
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| Author: | Mazer [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:01 pm ] |
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bugzpodder wrote: Only fools think they are Gods. I, for one, certainly aren't a fool.
That shouldn't be am not, should it? |
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| Author: | Andy [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:36 pm ] |
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bugz.. watch that cbc's documentry on china, then judge my comment.. |
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| Author: | bugzpodder [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:37 pm ] |
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Coutsos, possibly but i certainly dont give a damn Andy, there is nothing to judge. Unless you want to replace your comments with actual statistics (which there would be no dispute and judgement) I reserve the right to judge on your judgements, as you are welcome to on mine. |
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