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A Question to Waterloo Students...

Author:	eklypze [ Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	A Question to Waterloo Students...
Hello everyone! Today at my high school teachers had to discuss with students about what we will be doing after high school, and if we are planning to go to any colleges or universities. After my teacher briefly spoke about the universities and what they specialize in I became very interested in Waterloo University. I am planning on either entering Computer Science or Computer Engineering. Would any students or ex-students from Waterloo mind telling me of how the Computer Science or Engineering courses are there, how difficult it might be to get into Waterloo, or sharing any interesting stories about your experiences at Waterloo University? Also if anyone knows of any other good universities in Ontario that would be good for either Computer Science or Engineering, would you be so kind as to give me some suggestions? Thank you all.

Author:	Martin [ Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:53 pm ]
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I've finished my first year there (I was in CS, now I'm in Applied Math), and I have to say that I love it. Getting in wasn't so bad, if you have over an 80 average and a decent score on the Euclid you'll get in for sure. The course work can get pretty rough at times, but for the most part it's manageable. You'll have enough free time (during first year, at least). In 1B, my CS241 (baby compilers) course was pretty rough. MANY sleepless nights getting the final in. And at the end, they said that most of the stuff we did was what they teach in 4th year at other universities. Marks in university are pretty good, and from what I've seen have very little correlation to what people got outside of it. Math courses, in retrospect, are too easy at the regular level. The advanced courses are a lot of fun (although I switched out for 1B - I'm switching back in for 2A). Finally, I think the biggest selling point for Waterloo is the co-operative education program - the biggest in the world. People get co-op jobs with all sorts of companies, from working for the Canadian government to Google, Microsoft and Amazon in the US to working for Epson in Japan. Although some other universities offer co-op programs, none are as advanced. On my first job I was working for the Department of National Defense in Kingston, and now I'm in Japan with Epson (for a year...yikes). You learn a ton on work terms, and get paid too (which is nice, because Waterloo hates giving out scholarships. "What, you have a 100% average, 1600 on the SATS and got perfect on the Putnam? You qualify for our coveted $20 Tim Horton's gift certificate!") What grade are you in?

Author:	eklypze [ Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:46 pm ]
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I am in Grade 11 at the moment, but taking some Grade 12 courses ahead of time so I can have an easier year next year. From what you are saying about Waterloo, I think I will really enjoy going there (if I make it in). My average at the moment is over 80 (86 to be exact), I just hope I can keep it up throughout the course of high school. I would also like to ask how the graduating system at Waterloo University works. For example, I hear at Ryerson University in Toronto you need 20 credits to graduate. You are eligible to take 2 majors (8 credits) and 1 minor (4 credits) and two other courses or something along those lines. How exactly does Waterloo University work? And as a last question, are there any requirements to getting into co-op? I am very interested in applying in order to pay off my schooling. Thank you for your time.

Author:	Martin [ Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:36 pm ]
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For co-op, I believe the only requirement is that you can legally work in Canada (although I'm not sure about it). And go for co-op. There is nothing bad that I can say about it. I can't imagine going through university without it. Write the Euclid, if you don't already. It's a grade 12 contest, but I strongly recommend you write it in grade 11 as well for practice. Waterloo looks at it and will increase your admissions average by a point for every 10 points you get over the national average (contest is out of 100, average is usually around 40). All of your questions can (hopefully) be answered here. Here's what I recommend you do before you decide though: Choose five universities, and from each of those universities find five programs that they offer that you would at least be someone interested in learning more about. You'll find that there's a lot of stuff out there, and it'll help make your choice of school a much more informed decision.

Author:	Tony [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:27 am ]
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I think Martin has got it covered pretty well. We need to start a wiki about this. If you decide for Engineering, they essencially keep on throwing courses at you for the next 4.6 years, non-stop (even during your work-term). You have to pass every single one. I don't mean to scare you away.. Engineering is tough but it is amazing and I wouldn't want it any other way. You would also get a preference over CS/Math guys when applying for jobs

Author:	Cervantes [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:36 pm ]
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Martin wrote: And go for co-op. There is nothing bad that I can say about it. I can't imagine going through university without it. What if you intend to go to grad school? The contacts you need when you get out of grad school are probably not the same as the ones you wanted as an undergrad. But still, the money.

Author:	Tony [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:59 pm ]
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better than not doing co-op and having no contacts. if you're thinking grad, you certanly could use the money made in co-op

Author:	eklypze [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:52 pm ]
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Thank you guys for all your suggestions. I am now considering going into co-op, I don't know how I would pay off my schooling if not for co-op. Is it possible to get into co-op on your first year? I know that some universities require you to be into the second year before you can apply. Sorry if I'm asking too much, I'm just curious so that I would be able to plan things ahead of time instead of waiting until the last minute to find out I am screwed. About the Euclid, I actually just got a Waterloo Math Contest sheet the other day, having some review questions in it. It says it is held on February 11 of next year, is that the Euclid by any chance? Or are they completely different? Thanks for the link by the way, and again for your time.

Author:	Cervantes [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:58 pm ]
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eklypze wrote: About the Euclid, I actually just got a Waterloo Math Contest sheet the other day, having some review questions in it. It says it is held on February 11 of next year, is that the Euclid by any chance? Or are they completely different? The Euclid is usually written in April, I believe. The other contests (Pascal, Cayley, and Fermat) are written in mid-February, IIRC. Really gotta start practicing for the Euclid.

Author:	Tony [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:10 pm ]
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for CS/Math/Engineering co-op begins after 4 or 8 months of school (1~2 terms) depends on the Stream you're in. You might want to try to get into the same stream as your friends to be on campus at the same time, but otherwise it doesn't matter that much. And yes, Euclid and CCC are both important when applying for ether program.

Author:	eklypze [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:15 pm ]
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Quote: The Euclid is usually written in April, I believe. The other contests (Pascal, Cayley, and Fermat) are written in mid-February, IIRC. Oh, OK I understand now. I just read my sheet and it said it's the Fermat Math Contest. Would Waterloo University check my mark on this test as well? Quote: for CS/Math/Engineering co-op begins after 4 or 8 months of school (1~2 terms) depends on the Stream you're in. You might want to try to get into the same stream as your friends to be on campus at the same time, but otherwise it doesn't matter that much. And yes, Euclid and CCC are both important when applying for ether program. I'm sorry I dont know much about Universities, what is exactly is a stream? Is that like your schedule? I will definately try the Euclid test during April, but what exactly is CCC? Thank you for your replies.

Author:	Cervantes [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:26 pm ]
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There are two streams. Stream-4 and stream-8. Stream-4 starts their co-op term after a single term at university (4 months). Stream-8 starts their co-op term after two terms of academics (8 months). Both of them alternate each term, so if everyone in the university did co-op, and if everyone in the university were in the same year, only half the people would be actually at the university at any given time, with the exception of the first term of first year and the last term (after 4.3 years) CCC is the Canadian Computing Competition, held by the University of Waterloo. Google it.

Author:	we64 [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:06 pm ]
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Well where do you live man? if you live in a nice place such as Toronto, Kingston or etc. then I should warn you that Waterloo is pretty boring place that I feels. Not much things are going on and the community here is pretty educated but disconnected. UW, I am not in right now, but I come and go on weekends for study and I heard a lot of stuff about it. The school spirit is pretty bad, and not united, too competetive I should say.

Author:	eklypze [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:07 pm ]
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Thanks a lot for your help, I understand Streams in Universities now. About the CCC, have you tried it yet? I would just like to know what you thought about it, is it written or done on the computer, and when each year is it held? The more you guys tell me about Waterloo the harder it sounds to get in. Any suggestions as to what universities are also great in Ontario if I don't make it in?

Author:	we64 [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:18 pm ]
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The CCC is on Feb 28 this year, a little early than usual (march). Yeah it is on computer, you get to solve 5 problems in 3 hours. If you score high enough, you can get into stage 2 where you get to come to UW and live in residence for 5 days or something (fees are covered of course). You get to learn somthing there and write a contest of course. Two of my friends got in last year, one scored silver. You get to live with all the nerds in Canada and probably most of them are coming to UW for CS lol.. so you get to them early. But again it is really really hard to get in, if you love programming and does it everyday and learn algorithms, then you might have a chance. Lakehead sounds pretty good for CS, well from Dan that is, lol. They have the most advanced equipments and buildings among all universities probably. Ask Hacker Dan for more detailed info. Toronto and Mcmaster's engineerings are really good too, I dont' think it is any worse than UW at all. At some might be better too. So look them up too.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:33 pm ]
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I love Waterloo. There are tons of great restaurants and shops downtown and Toronto is just an hour away. The school is pretty competitive but there still is a certain kinship among the students. I mean, some students can be dicks, but I think that's the same as anywhere. The Euclid is the only Canadian math contest that I'm aware of Waterloo taking note of. I wrote it from grade 10 on. In grade 10, I only got a 28 (out of 100!). By grade 12, I had that up to an 82. I don't think I'd have been able to do it if I'd only written it in grade 12. Plus, it's a lot of fun. I love math contests. As for co-op and grad school: a lot of jobs that people take are as TA's and research assistants, which is an incredible way to get to see the academic world. The actual university hires a ton of co-op students each semester, and a number of other universities also hire Waterloo co-op students. Plus, if you're going to grad school, it's nice to have a glimpse of what the real world has in store too. Also, you get paid to go to grad school (at least in the math faculty).

Author:	Cervantes [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:44 pm ]
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Martin wrote: By grade 12, I had that up to an 82. I don't think I'd have been able to do it if I'd only written it in grade 12. Plus, it's a lot of fun. I love math contests. Any studying suggestions? Martin wrote: Also, you get paid to go to grad school (at least in the math faculty). That's fantastic! Is it good pay?

Author:	Martin [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:03 pm ]
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Do the previous contests, and learn all of the relevant theorems (especially for questions 7 to 9). There was only ever one #10 that I could get (97 or 98 I believe ... something to do with triangles). Not as good as graduating and getting a real job. I've heard that, after fees, you'd make about $20,000/year. You have to work for it by TAing classes though.

Author:	eklypze [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:10 pm ]
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Quote: Yeah it is on computer, you get to solve 5 problems in 3 hours. If you score high enough, you can get into stage 2 where you get to come to UW and live in residence for 5 days or something (fees are covered of course). You get to learn somthing there and write a contest of course. Two of my friends got in last year, one scored silver. That sounds great. Do these contests take place in the high school or do you have to go somewhere (such as to the University) in order to take them? Also to Martin, what theorems would be useful to know and are there any courses that I should take before taking that test? I need to make sure I do as good as possible to get into Waterloo.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:15 pm ]
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Well, if you're going to Waterloo, Data Management, Calculus and Algebra are musts. I liked physics too, but that's just me. I'll make you a list of things you should probably learn in a bit

Author:	eklypze [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:17 pm ]
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Sounds great, thanks.

Author:	Martin [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:24 pm ]
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Do you have a set of the previous contests? They're the best practice you can get. Here's the official Euclid contest website: http://www.cmc.uwaterloo.ca/english/contests/euclid.shtml If you scroll down a bit, they have all of the contests since 1998 and solutions. DON'T look at the solutions, even if you get stuck. Ask your teachers or friends for help; you'll learn way more that way. And print them off if you can. That way you can make notes on them.

Author:	eklypze [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:30 pm ]
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Thank you, I will check those out right away.

Author:	brenn [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:56 pm ]
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Well, I'm not in ECE, but I'm in Mechatronics at UW, which is pretty much the next closest thing. Mechatronics includes Mechanical, Electrical, Computer and some of Systems Design--which doesn't really say anything other than the fact that we're do just about every thing other than Civil and Enviro and Chem. As you've probably heard, we're #1 again this year.... we even had the chocolate (black) cupcakes and other (yellow) cupcakes spelling out "#1" -__- Co-op is great. You get to really try your hand in the field, and if you don't like it, you can even choose to switch to different program (pending if your grades are good enough, of course.) [sort of unrelatedly: Dan I met your father last week during work!!!] The money is nice too, although I (and my parents...) spend all of my work term income before the next term starts. ^^; Heehee. Good luck with your prospects and decisions!

Author:	Cervantes [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:57 pm ]
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Martin wrote: Well, if you're going to Waterloo, Data Management, Calculus and Algebra are musts. I liked physics too, but that's just me. Data Management? Ugh. I definately avoided that course. Why do you say it is a must?

Author:	Martin [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:11 pm ]
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More math. I enjoyed the course. Okay, maybe it's not a must. I definitely recommend it. Algebra and Calculus are still necissary though.

Author:	we64 [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:14 pm ]
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data management is a fun course. The math you learn in there can help a little with contests (counting methods).

Author:	Martin [ Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:31 pm ]
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A few things to learn right away: Basic probability. Start with the Binomial Coefficient. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BinomialCoefficient.html Permutations. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Permutation.html The Binomial Series. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/BinomialSeries.html This is why you should take Data Management if you get the chance. This is what it's all about. Common factoring! The number one skill in mathematics! kx + ky = k(x + y) Difference of squares. The number two skill in mathematics. a^2 - b^2 = (a + b)(a - b) The two above things won't always be so obvious, so keep your eyes open. Sum of a geometric series. Proof for the sum of a geometric series. Sine and cosine laws. Logarithm and exponant laws. Basic complex numbers. Curve sketching. How to draw curves, including curves with absolute values. How to find the roots. Then just work through the old contests and see what you can do.

Author:	bugzpodder [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:32 pm ]
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I am not as excited about waterloo as I use to be. (actually, it doesnt really matter where I am, whether it be St. Clair College, Waterloo, or MIT, I will probably feel the same way regardless). School isnt as fun as I thought it was. I got bored of studying so I stopped To me, I think grades are superficial. Its not difficult to get the mark you want. you just gotta do better than most other people. as long as you dont hate what ur doing, you'll be fine. different profs gives out different marks, so it is even pointless to complain on most occasions. there are three kinds of courses. applied, theory, and somewhere in between. applied is your usual do everything by the books and you'll get 85% course (most engineering courses, +applied math). theory is like memorizing all the theorems taught in class (advanced math, pure math). And amazingly, CS courses are somewhere in between. COOP is interesting. lots of responsibilities though. sometimes (esp for coding) you might get stuck and gets really fraustrated. (think about your CS projects, and multiply the frastraution by 100 because your boss is behind you)

Author:	Martin [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:04 pm ]
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I think I'm more excited about school when I'm not there (ie. when I don't have to do work )

Author:	brenn [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:25 pm ]
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Algebra and Discrete mathematics is no longer a requirement to get into Engineering... you can now take Biology, Earth and Space Sciences, or Data Management instead :/

Author:	eklypze [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:51 pm ]
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U of Waterloo doesn't require Discrete Math's to get into Engineering anymore? I was about to apply for it for next semester. If you don't mind me asking, what are the requirements to get into Computer Engineering?

Author:	Andy [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:26 pm ]
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all engineering courses have the same requirements at waterloo, it used to be chem, physics, discreet, calc, eng and one more U or M course.. but i dunno about the new change since calc is no longer in the curriculum.. i just finished my 1A of computer science and i can tell you its pretty much a bs term... i learned very little this term academic wise.. just a bit here and there, to sum it up, TAs are gay, CO-OP is awesome, and skipping class is a very very bad idea

Author:	Naveg [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:29 am ]
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This is only somewhat related to this thread, but I couldnt think of a better place for it without starting a new one. With the (hopefully) imminent arrival of the Intel Macs, I am considering making a laptop purchase in the near future. I just wanted to be certain that an Apple computer would be fine for any engineering/math program. Are there any windows only programs i may need once i get to university? Or is a Mac always a sure bet. Note that i currently have my sights on UW (and the intel iBook ) Thanks.

Author:	md [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:47 am ]
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Since UW is fairly unix oriented, as long as you can run linux apps (and an X server) you should be fine. I'm pretty sure mas can do that too... being unix based as they are

Author:	Martin [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:31 pm ]
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If you use a mac, people will make fun of you. Linux is the only way to fly.

Author:	Naveg [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:17 pm ]
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do they not use mathematica or maple or anytihng like that?

Author:	Martin [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:21 pm ]
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Maple. Pretty nifty program, I have to say.

Author:	Naveg [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:28 pm ]
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which doesn't work on linux as far as i know.... edit: nevermind. Martin don't you use a Mac?

Author:	Martin [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:16 am ]
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SHHHHHH!!!!!

Author:	wtd [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:33 am ]
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<Nelson> Ha ha! </Nelson>

Author:	Andy [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:38 pm ]
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yea maple is very very cool... i know for math we have to use it, but u dont need it for your laptop, just use the school labs, but im not too sure for engineering, though u'll need mat lab

Author:	brenn [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:42 pm ]
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eklypze wrote: U of Waterloo doesn't require Discrete Math's to get into Engineering anymore? I was about to apply for it for next semester. If you don't mind me asking, what are the requirements to get into Computer Engineering? Please refer to the following webpage: http://www.findoutmore.uwaterloo.ca/programs/full_description.php?program=Computer%20Engineering

Author:	eklypze [ Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:50 pm ]
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Thank you.

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