Computer Science Canada Review: Ready to Program |
Author: | [Gandalf] [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Review: Ready to Program |
Intro I actually found RTP on my school computers today, and I thought I would do a fairly objective review. Can't do any harm, right? Granted, it only takes the face view of it since I have obviously only 'used' it for an hour, so others will definately know better than me. Disadvantages -It uses the outdated Java 1.4.2 sdk, not sure if this is exclusive for the version I was using, but it seems unlikely the program will be updated by holtsoft and by every school in time with Java updates. -Uses the IBM Java compiler, why? Java should be Java. -HSA.* classes, not just the HSA.console class. They teach you to do things the wrong way. For more examples, do a search for HSA console on compsci. -Promotes a "write code for you" attitude, by creating the outline of various kinds of program for you. This is minor, as it is very limited. -Writes extraneous comments in the above mentioned outlines, which promote the user to continue doing the same. -For an IDE, lacks features. -Has strange requirements to create a runnable program. Advantages -Auto-intentation -Help is fairly easy to use, especially if you are a previous Turing user, though really no difference to the same at java.sun.com -First thing to show me a simple application framework. -Fixed the bug in the Turing editor outlined here. -Simple layout with syntax highlighting, but any good editor would also have this. I would point out that any of the advantages mentioned can be found elsewhere. Conclusion I find Hikaru's post to be true: Quote: For most basic classroom uses, Ready is okay. Remember, just because you're using RTP does NOT mean you'll neccesarily have to use the HSA Console classes or any of that crap. I would definitely stay away from using that, but there's nothing wrong with using Ready at first -- it is nothing more than a syntax-highlighting text editor with compile+run bound to its F1 key. Yes, it does use a different compiler, but by the time students get to the point where that makes any difference, it will be trivial to switch them over to Sun JDK.
found here for reference on the discussion and points made by others. Thoughts? Comments? I will add any fair additions/changes to the list. *edit* Don't know if anyone will ever read this, but after more experience with various Java environments, I would compare Java with RTP to "Java" with J# or J++. That's not a good thing, by the way. |
Author: | jamonathin [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:51 pm ] | ||
Post subject: | |||
I don't really know much about outdated java versions, but what i do know is that when running the code below, it has a fatal error, but it's not your fault!!!11. But it's not like it hasn't worked before on Ready to Program. I have run this code before, only it works, sometimes, not shure when that is tho. I do know that this code works 100% of the time on Eclipse, but like I said, I dont know much about java and whatnot so, yeah.
|
Author: | Prince Pwn [ Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Review: Ready to Program |
I know this is an old thread, but now that Windows Vista is out (2007, expected 2003) I find Ready to Program very slow on Vista. I don't know if it's my machine (with only 512MB Ram [min. for Vista] ) but when I press F1, it seems a random delay of 1 to 60 seconds before the program will attempt execute. It sits there at "Executing file" with the loading wheel spinning on the cursor. If I press F1 a billion times, sometimes it launches faster. |
Author: | ericfourfour [ Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Review: Ready to Program |
That happens all the time at school. It is just goes slow because there is a lot of information to load onto the memory (try pressing F1 in Visual Studio). Don't worry, it isn't your machine. The help menu is simply an organized list of all of the items in the javadoc. You will find the same information with a simple google search. |
Author: | Prince Pwn [ Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Review: Ready to Program |
EDIT: Closing RTP and re-opening it will allow the code to execute instantly. It seems after it's loaded into memory, after a few executes it gets slower and slower. |
Author: | FileFantasy [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
With Holtsoft releasing Turing codes, I hope there'll be RTP codes soon so that we can get some open source RTP going. |
Author: | Tony [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
I would think that RTP, being made up of a collection of HSA class files, is already "open sourced" (as in, you should be able to view the source). Or reverse compile the libraries. |
Author: | [Gandalf] [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
Depends on what you mean by codes... The only codes available for Turing are some of the basic library, such as Str and Window, much of which are external anyway. Comparably, you could reverse the HSA libraries to view their source... The way you put it, though, makes it seem like you're referring to the code for the environment (ie. the Turing IDE, the RTP IDE), which I'm pretty sure will not become available. |
Author: | Aziz [ Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
The only comments I have are on the old posts, but since they haven't been brought up I'll post 'em anyways. 1) You can configure RTP to use any compiler you want. There's a setting where you point it to the javac.exe file, IIRC. 2) 512M ram on vista may be "minimum specs", but it's definitely not the minimum specs for a runnable machine. You need 1GB for basic office and web tasks to run smoothly. and 3) I doubt the IDE is open-source, as nothing else of Holfsoft's is, but it is possible there are .java files for the HSA console. If not, the .class files can be reverse compiled with a fair amount of work (as long as they aren't horribly obfuscated) |
Author: | Tony [ Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:16 am ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
Though there's no point in open sourcing the RTP IDE, as there are much better open source IDEs available (Eclipse). |
Author: | Aziz [ Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:17 am ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
Or Netbeans, or JCreator, or Notepad++, or anything else that's a Java IDE/Editor short of plain old notepad (I think vim would be able to syntax highlight, no?) I think there's a list of IDEs somewhere in the java forums. |
Author: | rizzix [ Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:48 am ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
For a modern VIM: http://cream.sourceforge.net/ |
Author: | changturkey [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Review: Ready to Program |
Can anyone suggest a better alternative to Ready To Program? I tried Netbeans, seems user friendly, but commands such as 'import java.text.Decimal Format' and such results in me being told to remove the unused import command. I cannot format the resultant output to a certain decimal, which is required for my schoolwork. |
Author: | Aziz [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
You're simply being warned about that, because the import hasn't been used (yet). Warnings can be ignored, but they're helpful to follow (sensibly). I'd also recommend Eclipse. Once you get used to it, you'll never want to use it for anything else. I use it for Java, PHP, C++, Python, and Java ME. I also really used to like JCreator, so much that I bought a Pro version, but it's only worthwhile if you get the Pro and it's only Windows (as well as being Java-only). |
Author: | HellblazerX [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Review: Ready to Program |
There's lots. Check out this topic. |
Author: | changturkey [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: RE:Review: Ready to Program |
Aziz @ Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:43 pm wrote: You're simply being warned about that, because the import hasn't been used (yet). Warnings can be ignored, but they're helpful to follow (sensibly).
I'd also recommend Eclipse. Once you get used to it, you'll never want to use it for anything else. I use it for Java, PHP, C++, Python, and Java ME. I also really used to like JCreator, so much that I bought a Pro version, but it's only worthwhile if you get the Pro and it's only Windows (as well as being Java-only). Thanks Aziz and Hellblazer. I am a Java newb, so ungh. |
Author: | Raza [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:52 am ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
Could you be more specific about why HSA is the 'wrong way' of doing things in Java? |
Author: | [Gandalf] [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
Just search for "HSA console" in the Java section, we've had lots of discussions about it in the past. Two big things are: 1. Standards exist for a reason. If you're ever asked to do Java on a computer that doesn't have the HSA classes installed, you'll have little idea of the 'normal' way of doing things. Also, more relevant to education.... If you're going to ask a question on, say, Sun's Java forums or even here on CompSci.ca, only the fraction of people with experience using those proprietary classes could help you. 2. From the little I've seen of the Console and such, it encourages procedural code over object oriented code. It seems like an attempt to make Java closer to Turing, however that kind of defeats the purpose of learning a new language. Also, these classes use outdated methods because they haven't been updated in years and HoltSoft is out of business. The standard Java library now has much better ways of doing I/O and such, which leaves little excuse to use Console. |
Author: | gaurdianAQ [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Review: Ready to Program |
ya I'll admit this ready sucks but is required for the course Im taking Im wondering if there is a clear screen command or some way to do that similar in basic and turing to cls?????? a pm or reply works |
Author: | wtd [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
The idea of "clearing the screen" in a text output window is an inherently bad one. If you want this kind of control, you need to create an application with a graphical user interface. |
Author: | DemonWasp [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
wtd is right: Either leave console output alone, or make a proper GUI application. If you go the GUI route in Java, skip the headaches of AWT / Swing and instead go straight to SWT. It's what Eclipse uses; it's the best GUI out there for Java, and one of the best in general. |
Author: | A. Rav [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
Just curious, my class is using Ready, but after seeing this thread and noticing it's similarity to Turing, I want to switch to Eclipse. Will using eclipse on the side and ready in class cause me to become confused? Or are they similar enough to let me code in ready until I finish the course(s)? Thanks in advance. |
Author: | Tony [ Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | RE:Review: Ready to Program |
The big problem with RTP is that the class material typically relies on the use of RTP's libraries, which is not used in real-world Java. |
Author: | chunnn_li [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Review: Ready to Program |
gaurdianAQ @ Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:09 pm wrote: ya I'll admit this ready sucks but is required for the course Im taking Im wondering if there is a clear screen command or some way to do that similar in basic and turing to cls?????? a pm or reply works
I know this is really late, but I believe the method is just c.clear(); Just in case anyone else has the same problem. DemonWasp wrote: wtd is right: Either leave console output alone, or make a proper GUI application. If you go the GUI route in Java, skip the headaches of AWT / Swing and instead go straight to SWT. It's what Eclipse uses; it's the best GUI out there for Java, and one of the best in general. Just wondering what makes SWT so much better? I've heard of it, but never really looked into it and I found swing to be pretty easy to learn, even if it's kinda bulky. Thanks |