Computer Science Canada inertia |
Author: | person [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | inertia |
y does inertia exist (in other words, what causes it)? |
Author: | Andy [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:43 pm ] |
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what do u mean what causes it? there is nothing that really causes inertia. simply, why would an object move if no one touches it or why would an object stop moving if u leave it alone? i guess its really because you cant get something for nothing... something must be inputed if u got something out of it |
Author: | Cervantes [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:10 pm ] |
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I think the better question would be, "Why doesn't inertia not exist?" ![]() I wouldn't say "inertia exists", however. It doesn't exist in the same sense that the sun exists. It is an observable property of matter, but it differs from many things in that this inertia is more a lack of somethings existance. It's sort of like the centrifugal force, which is ficticious, but it still has an impact. Perhaps that isn't the best example, since the centrifugal force is directly related to inertia. ![]() |
Author: | Martin [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:39 pm ] |
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Inertia exists because it has to exist. No inertia, no universe. |
Author: | shorthair [ Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:01 pm ] |
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Read A Book On Quantum Mechanics , that will clear everything up ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() You would probably set yourself on fire and jump out a window if you tried to understand it , especially becuae youdont have a firm grasp of classical physics yet. sorry guys, just finishd a paper on it for Physics today, the prof had me in awe on the subjet |
Author: | codemage [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:03 pm ] |
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There can be no reaction without an action. Therefore, anything with inertia will continue until some sort of action occurs on it. |
Author: | md [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:42 pm ] |
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It's the embodyment of one of newton's laws: an object in motion will stay in motion unless an action is performed upon it. If you throw a ball then (in a frictionless, gravity free eviroment) there would be nothing to stop it from moving unless it hit something. The inertia of the ball is a measure of the potential energy it has. I forget the forumula's to figure it out though, been a long time since physics. |
Author: | shorthair [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:41 am ] |
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an object will not continue accelerating like classical physics says. as you approach c , time will slow down and hte time it takes to accelerate will increase and you will end up never making it to c. where c is hte speed of light. So really inertia is much more complex. |
Author: | md [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:31 am ] |
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shorthair wrote: an object will not continue accelerating like classical physics says.
as you approach c , time will slow down and hte time it takes to accelerate will increase and you will end up never making it to c. where c is hte speed of light. So really inertia is much more complex. Classical physics says nothing about an object continuing to accelerate... aceleration requires force. The equation e=mc^2 expresses the relationship between mass, energy, and the speed of light. It actually doesn't say anything about time either (though it has been theorized). Basically all it says is that as the energy of the object increases (like really big, and through acceleration), the mass must also increase as the speed of light is (theoretically, not in practice) constant. |
Author: | shorthair [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:19 am ] |
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classical physics does say that it will continue to accelerate. Galileo himself said it. the old hypothesis was that if you were flying at 3/4 light speed and fired a bullet out of a cannon on hte ship at 3/4 light speed. hte bullet would be moving at 1.5 lightspeed. because classical physics says to add vectors. this is also reflected in newton . he says that an object will continue to accelerate until acted upon. |
Author: | codemage [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:59 am ] |
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That's not "acceleration" though. By the old theory, the bullet/cannonball would be going at 1.5 * c by adding the vectors. It's not speeding up though, you've just added the relative velocities together. Acceleration implies some sort of force that is making the object go faster over time, like gravity pulling an object down a hill; starting slow and gaining speed. |
Author: | shorthair [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:05 pm ] |
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i know that is not acceleration , im showing that classical physics believed in a >c world. and that Galileo believed you could accelerate past c ( he didnt know about c, but he believed you could always goes faster, thus implying past c),my previous post was just an example he used to show how speeds add. he had other examples that used acceleration i added in c , to show how it wsa wrong at speeds close to lightspeed. All in all , everyone here all knows the same things. coolest inertia fact " while trying to get to lightspeed ,it would require more than all the energy in the universe to push you to c" |
Author: | md [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:12 pm ] |
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Although it's not really relavent here there have been many cases where the speed of light has been shown to be faster or slower then c. Unfortunately I don't have links to nay articles so I can't really back up my claim... but it is true! Slowing and speeding up light is a very useful ability for making light signaling devices ie. switches for wide area fiber networks. On topic: even if people did believe that an object would continue to accelerate if no force was applied; that dones't mean that it will. An object which has no forces applied to it will not change speed or direction. |
Author: | shorthair [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Light cant be slowed down, not even through water , its actually an effect of our vison , that makes an illusion that it slows down. id really like to see these articles where they speedup and slow down light to harnss it for data transfer. light is a radiation which does not accelerate, ittravels at a constant velocity, so for it to slow down must either mean that hte radiation constant is changed (that aint happening) or it accelates to close to C. but becuase its a radiaton it cant accelerate. im 99.9% sure i know what im talking aboutthanks to university and reading, but i have not hunted down these articles you speak of. |
Author: | Hikaru79 [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:13 pm ] |
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shorthair wrote: Light cant be slowed down, not even through water , its actually an effect of our vison , that makes an illusion that it slows down.
Are you sure about that? I'm certainly not a science major, but every written thing I've ever seen dealing with refraction has said it is caused by the change in speed as light changes mediums. I could be very, very wrong ![]() |
Author: | MihaiG [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:24 pm ] |
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hah.....light can slow down! that why it bend near gravity.....another fact is cherenkov(aka.cerenkov) radiation which is when particle emited(neutrinos etc.) are moving faster than the speed of light in that medium.....so they are moving faster than light in air...causing ionization of the air.. giving of a blue glow..... i also saw on discovery some guy had this really dense dense liquid in a aquarium and put a laser beam perpendicular to the edge... and you could see it curve downwards.....and ingeniously he put mirrors where the laser would bend down so they would bounce back up etc.. light is not radiation is a wave and a particle part of the duality principle....it acts as a wave as it can change frequency but can be warped by gravitational fields... C is actually the speed of light in perfect vacum which is impossile and is an estimate.... ![]() if any can add on please do. |
Author: | md [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
El Comandante wrote: hah.....light can slow down! that why it bend near gravity.....another fact is
cherenkov(aka.cerenkov) radiation which is when particle emited(neutrinos etc.) are moving faster than the speed of light in that medium.....so they are moving faster than light in air...causing ionization of the air.. giving of a blue glow..... i also saw on discovery some guy had this really dense dense liquid in a aquarium and put a laser beam perpendicular to the edge... and you could see it curve downwards.....and ingeniously he put mirrors where the laser would bend down so they would bounce back up etc.. light is not radiation is a wave and a particle part of the duality principle....it acts as a wave as it can change frequency but can be warped by gravitational fields... C is actually the speed of light in perfect vacum which is impossile and is an estimate.... ![]() if any can add on please do. Elcomandante got many things wrong (light bends in gravity because gravity effects all particles; ie. light), but he's right. The constant c represents the speed of light in a perfect vacuum. In other mediums the speed of light is indeed less then C (and I don't know about faster, but I'm thinking not). The bending of light when it enters a tank of water is caused by the light slowing down as it enters the water from the air. Grade 11 physics ![]() |
Author: | Dan [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I am prity shure that light can be considered as elcotro matigck radtiaon since it is on the the elctormantick sepecturm. Tho it dose have some intrestest propteritys that makes it act like wave some times and a partical other times. |
Author: | md [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:58 pm ] |
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Light, like all electomagnetic radiation, is carried by a particle called a photon. Sometimes it's easier to think of a photon like a wave, sometimes like a particle. Huzzah for quantum theory and particle/wave duality... such a wonderful source of confusion! |
Author: | shorthair [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
So we all agree on not faster. Now the reason it does not go slower is because of inertia refereance frames. the light appears to move slower in hte obserers referance frame but in another it may not have changed at all. becuase light has to do with distance and time , the effects are proportional. Great point , that argues both sides of our problem. Quote: 14. The moon revolves round my head faster than light! Stand up in a clear space and spin round. It is not too difficult to turn at one revolution each two seconds. Suppose the moon is on the horizon. How fast is it spinning round your head? It is about 385,000 km away so the answer is 1.21 million km/s, which is more than four times the speed of light! It sounds ridiculous to say that the moon is going round your head when really it is you who is turning, but according to general relativity all co-ordinate systems are equally valid including revolving ones. So isn't the moon going faster than the speed of light? This is quite difficult to account for. What it comes down to, is the fact that velocities in different places cannot be directly compared in general relativity. Notice that the moon is not overtaking the light in its own locality. The velocity of the moon can only be compared to the velocity relative to other objects in its own local inertial frame. Indeed, the concept of velocity is not a very useful one in general relativity and this makes it difficult to define what "faster than light" means. Even the statement that "the speed of light is constant" is open to interpretation in general relativity. Einstein himself in his book "Relativity: the special and the general theory" said that the statement cannot claim unlimited validity (pg 76). When there is no absolute definition of time and distance it is not so clear how speeds should be determined. Nevertheless, the modern interpretation is that the speed of light is constant in general relativity and this statement is a tautology given that standard units of distance and time are related by the speed of light. The moon is given to be moving slower than light because it remains within the future light cone propagating from its position at any instant. |
Author: | 1of42 [ Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Light can be slowed - and it can be stopped. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/27mar_stoplight.htm c is just speed of light in a vacuum - im fairly sure that if light always went at exactly c, refraction would not occur (and it clearly does). |
Author: | MysticVegeta [ Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Cornflake wrote: Light, like all electomagnetic radiation, is carried by a particle called a photon. Sometimes it's easier to think of a photon like a wave, sometimes like a particle. Huzzah for quantum theory and particle/wave duality... such a wonderful source of confusion!
what the? werent there some arguments about Light being a particle. So they took it sometimes as a particle or electromagnetic radiation for calculation purposes? |
Author: | Paul [ Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:24 pm ] |
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No, its accepted that it has both wave and particle characteristics. In fact, everything does, even a baseball. Its just its amplitude is so small, it wouldn't matter. Quantum mechanics says that if you design an experiment to observe the particle characteristics, thats all you'll get, and if you try and observe the wave characteristics, the same thing happens. You force the collapse of the wave function. You cannot observe it having both characteristics at the same time, in that manner its sort of like Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle. |
Author: | Dan [ Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:37 pm ] |
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AH i love the hole probelm of "reality object of the observer" (i.e. how the exparment it's self effects the output). It realy makes you think about some things. |
Author: | Andy [ Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:30 pm ] |
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shorthair wrote: im 99.9% sure i know what im talking aboutthanks to university and reading, but i have not hunted down these articles you speak of.
well apparantly UT physics sux then, ever learn the equation n = c/v ? the index of refraction of a material is equal to c divided by the speed of light in that material. Also the speed of light in a vacum is also dependent upon the density of space time at that ceratain spot, otherwise, the inflation period will be impossible |
Author: | Paul [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
No, light always travels at c, vacuum or not. Think about it this way, through a more dense material, what is it travelling through at the smallest levels? vacuum. After all, matter is 99% vacuum. It maybe be "slowed down", but inside the material, its maybe be bouncing/being absorbed with the atoms in the material. The speed does not change, but the path does, as its travelling through a material. The speed of light is always c. You know the shimmering on the road on the summer's day? thats because light is hitting different parts of air which has more moisture, that is denser. Now it SEEMS light has slowed, which is why the shimmering occurs, but the SPEED does not change. The time it takes to get from point A to Point B may change, but the speed its travelling at in between is not lower than c. |
Author: | Andy [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:45 pm ] |
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wtf kinda bull shit do your schools teach you? http://www.rpi.edu/dept/phys/Dept2/APPhys1/optics/optics/node4.html because the speed of light is different in two different mediums, it bends. if light didnt change speeds in different mediums, then the general theory of relativity would not make sense. light does have different speeds, end of story any one who says other wise without providing proof is an idiot |
Author: | zylum [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:43 pm ] |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light i guess that answers it.. Quote: In passing through materials, light is slowed to less than c by the ratio called the refractive index of the material. The speed of light in air is only slightly less than c. Denser media, such as water and glass, can slow light much more, to fractions such as 3/4 and 2/3 of c. This reduction in speed is also responsible for bending of light at an interface between two materials with different indices, a phenomenon known as refraction.
Since the speed of light in a material depends on the refractive index, and the refractive index depends on the frequency of the light, light at different frequencies travels at different speeds through the same material. This can cause distortion of electromagnetic waves that consist of multiple frequencies, called dispersion. Note that the speed of light referred to is the observed or measured speed in some medium and not the true speed of light (as observed in vacuum). On the microscopic scale, considering electromagnetic radiation to be like a particle, refraction is caused by continual absorption and re-emission of the photons that compose the light by the atoms or molecules through which it is passing. In some sense, the light itself travels only through the vacuum existing between these atoms, and is impeded by the atoms. The process of absorption and re-emission itself takes time thereby creating the impression that the light itself has undergone delay (i.e. loss of speed) between entry and exit from the medium in question. It may be noted, that once the light has emerged from the medium it changes back to its original speed and this is without gaining any energy. This can mean only one thing - that the light's speed itself was never altered in the first place. i guess the speed of light is constant |
Author: | Paul [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:20 pm ] |
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Geez dodge, relativity remember? Speed of light is constant from whichever perspective you're in, that is why youll never be able to catch up with light. Example: If you're playing tag with someone vastly faster than you, who always travels at the same speed, but is a bit stupid, you'd perhaps force him into some obstacles, in which he bounces around in constant speed. In a sense you're "catching up to him", but he's still travelling at the same speed he always did. |
Author: | shorthair [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:20 am ] |
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Andy wrote: wtf kinda bull shit do your schools teach you?
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/phys/Dept2/APPhys1/optics/optics/node4.html because the speed of light is different in two different mediums, it bends. if light didnt change speeds in different mediums, then the general theory of relativity would not make sense. light does have different speeds, end of story any one who says other wise without providing proof is an idiot That last statement makes ou an idiot. there is only some observatio nby some person to back it up , there is no proof. Physics relies on theory nothing can be proven , just disproven. just becuase you found one case where light MAY have traveled less that c, that is from that observers point of view , you say general relativity staes that light changes speed, BIG BIG BIG NO NO , general relativity understands that light is constant in every inertial referance frame regarless of the observer , it only apears to be slower. light is not relative, this is part of General relativity , light is not relative to anythign , it just keeps chugging along at c, these observations all show that light can take longer paths , or get stuck in a path , thus creating hte illusion of faster and slower. Thats my answer based on the theorys i believe in |
Author: | Dan [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:07 am ] |
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Guys i think you are geting a litte excited over nothing. Speed depends on the fram of refecnec you are in. So in reality you are both right. Lets just stop yelling at peoleop and insualting them over somthing like this ok? |
Author: | Paul [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:08 pm ] |
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DAN! Did you not read what I WROTE?!?! Speed of LIGHT DOES NOT depend on frame of reference! Relativity says: If person A is travelling in the Opposite direction of Person B, and shines light at person B, no matter HOW fast person B travels, the speed of light is ALWAYS the SAME for BOTH frames of reference! |
Author: | Dan [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:21 pm ] |
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I ment if one perosns farim of refecrnce is in a vacume and the other is in a materall like glass or water. Then from the view of the person in the vacume light is going slower then in the vacume in till it gets out of the glass/waterl |
Author: | Tony [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:09 pm ] |
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Hacker Dan wrote: from the view of the person in the vacume..
the person in the vacuum would be dead [/derail] |
Author: | Paul [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:57 pm ] |
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That still depends on how small the people are and the power of their vision ![]() |
Author: | Dan [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:34 pm ] |
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I think the big issues here is speed vs velcoity. I agrea with you that the speed whould be the same but the velocity with slow down from the difrent refrecne points. |
Author: | Andy [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
shorthair wrote: you say general relativity staes that light changes speed, BIG BIG BIG NO NO , general relativity understands that light is constant in every inertial referance frame regarless of the observer , it only apears to be slower. light is not relative, this is part of General relativity , light is not relative to anythign , it just keeps chugging along at c, these observations all show that light can take longer paths , or get stuck in a path , thus creating hte illusion of faster and slower.
ok i admit i was wrong about that speed of light thing, but what you're saying about General theory is wrong, general theory talks about the curvature of space time caused by gravity, and it does not talk about light being constant, you're thinking special |
Author: | md [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:30 pm ] |
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Tony wrote: Hacker Dan wrote: from the view of the person in the vacume..
the person in the vacuum would be dead [/derail] |
Author: | Paul [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:41 pm ] |
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Quote: "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy says that if you hold a lungful of air you can survive in the total vacuum of space for about thirty seconds. However, it does go on to say that what with space being the mind-boggling size it is the chances of getting picked up by another ship within those thirty seconds are two to the power of two hundred and seventy-six thousand, seven hundred and nine to one against." |
Author: | Paul [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:55 pm ] |
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Bringing up an old topic to say I was wrong. Two reasons: 1. i was saying "at the smallest levels, light is still travelling through vacuum, so the speed of light never really changes. But upon further consideration, that is ONLY RESTATING the fact that light travels at the constant speed through a vacuum. The question is "Does light travel at a slower speed through another medium" and the answer would be "yes". As although the speed of light in between the atoms never changes, looking at the MEDIUM as a whole, it does slow light down. 2. Giving the wave properties of light more importance, one might say that the charges of subatomic particles interefer with the electromagnetic fields of a photon, thus hindering it. In this case, the medium is indeed SLOWING the photon down. So I'm apologize, light does travel slower in different mediums other than vacuum. |
Author: | Martin [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:07 pm ] |
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Does it matter what model vacuum you use? |
Author: | Andy [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:12 pm ] |
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its just average velocity and instantaneous velocity.. w.e who cares, we're prolly all wrong nyways |
Author: | Tony [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:21 pm ] |
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Andy wrote: w.e who cares, we're prolly all wrong nyways
QFT |