Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject: (No subject)
Experienced in VB and C++ by 15 eh? dam i hate gifties (no offense Cervantes)
Lol I started programming when i was 13 but only some basic javascripts in flash mx lol
Came across turing in Grade 9 (15) and then next shot was at Java a couple of months ago, i didnt like it lol. So i moved to C++, I know basic syntax (arrays, loops, etc.) Found C++ easier for some really weird reason, I am still in grade 9 but i plan to take engineering because programming i can do on my own
Ok, I am really blabbing right now, i should shut up. Hey everyone can post their stories here lol
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lyam_kaskade
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: (No subject)
MysticVegeta wrote:
but i plan to take engineering because programming i can do on my own
Wow! that's what i said when I applied to engineering
Anyway, I should probably add something to this discussion.
Java and C++ are both very difficult for beginners, so they're out. Open source-oriented scripting languages like Python and Ruby are out, because those can't be sold in a neat little teaching package.
VB doesn't support object orientation (source: Wikipedia), and since it's "Visual", it's not as effective for teaching programming fundamentals (not to mention it's not licensed by a canadian company, like Turing).
One famous dutch programmer once said (of BASIC):
Quote:
"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration"--Edsger Dijkstra
That leaves Turing, I suppose.
Though we don't have to like it.
[Gandalf]
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:39 pm Post subject: (No subject)
Quote:
"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration"--Edsger Dijkstra
OMG!! I'm hopeless! Mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration! My brain just melted, it's the exposure to BASIC as my first programming language... Oh dear goo.. AAAAHHH!
Yeah... Just because its not a good language to learn, doesn't mean it kills you to know it . Any language is a good introduction to the idea of programming.
Too bad my school only has* computer science after grade 10, forces your path... It's still pretty good though, I would have chose CompSci anyway. Still, I can't make my mind up if a computer engineering career would be better or a comp science one.
wtd
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject: (No subject)
[Gandalf] wrote:
Too bad my school only have computer science after grade 10, forces your path...
Learn on your own. It's not that hard.
[Gandalf]
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject: (No subject)
Bah! I don't make any sense this late at night...
Learn computer engineering on my own? It might get hard once you get into the more in-depth stuff. That's what I meant, my school only has computer engineering gr 10, comp science gr 11-12.
Sorry if I am not making sense .
wtd
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject: (No subject)
[Gandalf] wrote:
Learn computer engineering on my own? It might get hard once you get into the more in-depth stuff.
There's nothing you'll learn in high school that you can't learn on your own.
Pick a language, dive in, and absorb as much as you can. Then pick another language. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Once you pick a language, feel free to ask questions here. Questions are good. They are not a sign of stupidity. They just mean you're ignorant. As long as fix that ignorance it's fine.
c0bra54
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:08 pm Post subject: (No subject)
yeh like wtd was touching on .. a stupid person can't learn.. but an ignorant person can be taught... and chances are if you ae here on this msg board, then you do care somewhat, and therefore wil have some drive to do it... mmm... lather...
in my honest opinion, i htink turing is an incredible intor to proramming.. i meen, it can be used to teach decent programing fundamentals, like forewarding (just leanred) true object oriented with class and pointers... and it is also good for problem solving, like i find half the problem is not how to write the code, but how to make it run fast, in short amount of physical code, and to also solve the problem...
like i am trying to write a chess AI in turng (don't flame, i am gonna learn C# or java next) and half of my problem is how to write nice code, like for the moves instead of saying if piece tile = this then you cna move here here and here
say something like for Q that her x must equal her y or her x must euqal 0 or her y must = 0... therefore all of her moves are accounted for .. but it is nicer code.. and in any language out there, a bad programmer wil always be a bad coder, someone who writes crap code, that is to hard coded allows for no change and is to long (i hate long code)
there's my 2 cents.. but ys i think Turing is an EXCELLENT intro to programming.... i sitll tihnk they should do flash or VB gr 9, then turing in 10, java in 11 and C++ in twelve.. this would REALLY prepare ppl for university.. but meh those r only my two cents...PS flams allowed and welcome
EDIT: i don't have the english skills to proof read.. sry for spelling lol
Cinjection
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:05 am Post subject: (No subject)
The main problem that i've heard about VB, is that it teaches very bad syntax rules and makes it harder to learn future languages. I personally think that's bullshit. If i went into C++, without knowing VB, i'd be lost beyond return. Oh and i wouldn't say i'm THAT experianced in C++ so don't thing i'm some programming god. I know some C++ and a lot more VB. Anyway i think i'll just sufer through that course for 1 semester, and then get into Java, which is actually fun. Oh and the point on how VB is Visual and doesn't teach things as well; Most languages programmers use extensivly are all visual (think:Visual Studio).
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MysticVegeta
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:34 am Post subject: (No subject)
c0bra your final paragraph was so right. Our school used to have the same things. We had Grade 9 VB for enriched program. Grade 10 C++ for enriched program Grade 11 C++ for enriched program. And shift them 1 year later for normal program. We had Borland C++ but since our school is on a private server, many many many people made some "hacking" programs that could easily bypass our servers security, so they removed both of the languages Although we stil have VB6.0 compiler, they dont teach it anymore. C++ is removed. DAM! And it was 2 years before i came to high school!!!!!!!! BAH! Now i ask the Grade 11's, they are far smarter than i will be in grade 11 But its a good thing i got into enriched program lol!
ZeroPaladn
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:55 am Post subject: (No subject)