Canadian Politics

[Paul]

Haha, you ppl will never experience wearing red scarves with millions of other kids...
oh yea, I vote for conservatives, cause it looks like cervantes.

[Dan]

wow jonos you seem to have alot of iusse u need to reslove with your self there. i dont know where u are geitng all this agner stuff about me making you cahge your view.

u seem to have been give a strong view point there, so much so u say things that have no basic in realty and if looked at objuecitve make no secen waht so ever shuch as "and if we even had private healthcare, everyone would have access to it" now i may not be 100% about the meaning of "private" somting tells me it dose not mean "veryone would have access to it".

aslo about the cirstion parity they may have not been rasitcs but they are denfeantly pergisted, i mean just look at how mad they get about gay rights. also a region should have no place in state. it could do no good, it whould just make a basis for poleop of that region. if it did not there whould be no point. and if u think i am wrong about them being pergisted and even rasits some times look up some qoutes from partys like the christian coalition.

here are some:


note: pat is the head of the christian coalition

Quote:

"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" --from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order,"

Quote:

"The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening." -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, Dec. 30, 1981

Quote:

"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them."--Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, January 14, 1991

Quote:

(talking about apartheid South Africa) "I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 3/18/92

Quote:

"The public education movement has also been an anti-Christian movement...We can change education in America if you put Christian principles in and Christian pedagogy in. In three years, you would totally revolutionize education in America." --Pat Robertson,"The 700 Club," September 27, 1993.

Quote:

"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."-- George Bush

and yet poleop still like this guy?

any how who cares about consrivtes, bigger isues witch is christian coalition. i hope they never get to much power but the truth is they all ready have it....

[poly]

*does a wave for the communist party*
*does a jig for the Green Party*

[Homer_simpson]

and i am a nazi!!!! and a fan of hitler!

[Paul]

does a national socialist party exist in Canada? Homer gonna join?

[jonos]

i don't think i have issues, you were telling me that you think that i will never give up my faith in a "corrupted party". now go look at the liberals, a left leaning party, who are corrupt. why should i have to give up my faith in it,, you were implying that you should stop arguing with me because i wasn't agreeing with you. you can consider the conservatives corrupted, but how?

christian stuff:
ive never seen those quotes, though now i am no longer ignorant to their existence, though those are the beliefs of christians. those are beliefs sent doewn through the ages and from the bible. those are the beliefs of others, and though you may not agree with them, and i may not agree with them, that doesn't mean that they are wrong, they are the beliefs of others, which should be respected, which it seems like you don't want to.

i didn't think i was sounding angry, i didn't mean to, but to me you sounded angry at your bashing of the conservatives, and remember, i have never in this thread or anywhere given support to the christian heritage, though some things i agree with, not the things against g a y people or the things against atheists and other religions.

i didn't mean to seem angry, but to me in your comment about your stopping to giving "real" examples of things I got the impression that you were going to stop trying to convince me of your beliefs.

i meant by saying stuff about the private healthcare thing was that people would still be able to access healthcare. i reworded it wrong. i meant that private healthcare should be made available, while medicare for those not able to afford it. therefore those who want private healthcare do not have to pay the taxes for medicare, while those who want medicare can still pay those taxes.

also, you seem to give the impression that you don't like george bush for just saying that comment. i don't like that comment he made, but i would still support him. politicians try to represent and appeal to as many people as they can, which would lead to him saying that to appeal to many people to belive in that.

i wasn't trying to give the impression that i had issues, maybe im just pissed off that the whole school system is controlled by socialist-liberal types which do not allow the right side opinions. i am currently reeling from a 30 minute rant i experienced in civics from my teacher to the whole class, where he bashed bush, bashed the conservatives, and bashed america as a whole. no teacher has a right to say stuff like that which is highly opinioniated just because they have a pulpit to speak from. maybe that is why i seem pissed off, but i am not, i, just like you, am trying to present my opinion in a debate. seriously, im not pissed off.

[Dan]

in an effort to end this debate i will not coment on all the things i find wrong with your staments about the conserivtes.

alougth saying that the beliefs of the cirstion coltion should be respected is wrong in so many ways.

lets look at thous qoutes more closly:


(talking about apartheid South Africa) "I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 3/18/92


so to sum this up every person geting a equal vote is wrong, hummmm. and sice this is reffuing to the apartheid in south africa this is bring in race isues witch whould be black poleops votes should count less.



When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" --from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order,"


ohhhhhhh is this not nice that means if u are not cirstion or jewish you lose rights. wow and poleop listion to this guy.

if u ask me this is worse then the comuist contorys you where saying where not nice to there poleop. at least they where not rasits or jerguisted about who they where oppersing (well most of them).


why cant poleop just be equall, why most so many partys and poleop be agested this? is it b/c they are affred that if they are put on a fair plane as the rest of the wrold they whould be screwed b/c all theycan realy do is adcven in life by screwing over other poleop? life is scaret we should not go an bomb the hell out of it no mater what one person from there conotry, race or region did to us.

[jonos]

by saying respecting someones beliefs i meant respecting that they do have a point of view. just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that they are evil and wrong, it just means they have a different opinion. i respect your point of view, it doesn't mean that i agree with it though.

and saying that people should be equal, no government (even communist) can say everyone is equal. there will always be richer, more powerful people in any government, and many will be richer and more powerful just because they support the government and get special treatment, which means they are not equal. everyone is equal in a democracy, the government does not say: you are poor so you are third class, you are well off so you are middle class, you are rich so you are 1st class. it is someone's disposition in life, and this still exists in communist countries. just because you all call eachother the same word (like comrade) doesn't mean that everyone is equal. i would like to quote something that da_foz quoted in the quotes thread:

"Capitalism, it is said, is a system wherein man exploits man.
And communism -- is vice versa. "

and by saying that you cannot respect the opinions or persuasions of of others is just as bad as the hardcore christian parties saying that they don't like atheists and heathens.

the conservatives believe everyone should be equal, that is the essence of democracy, and the conservatives are democratic. go to conservative.ca
and nowhere there will you see anything about not everyone should be equal.

and sometimes countries have to go to war to protect their way of life, there citizens, and their democracy. at the state the world is now, the european countries wouldn't have stopped hitler (except britain and ital maybe). the us would have sacrificed their resources, their war materials, their soldiers, to stop hitler. the un would be as useless as the league of nations.

i just cannot understand why you cannot respect another's beliefs, and please provide evidence why the conservatives are corrupt and believe that no one should be equal.

[Dan]

wtf u talking about? u whont me to resptic the biffe that i should have fewwer rights b/c i am not cirstion. and u whont me to repsitck the bliffey that balck poleop should not get a say in elections?!?!?!?!?!?

repsticing blifes comes to an end when they start hurting poleop. thats why canada has laws agaesed hate crims and say shit like that on t.v. some eps of the 700 club can not be played in canada b/c it breaks the hate crimes law. it is beond a bliffe when u take it to rasict and perguest levels the canadian govemnt aggremes with me here and thats why it is in the laws. i am not saying this b/c i hate cirstions or somting. if it was a atheists coltion that side the same things i whould dilike that orgations as well. it has nothing to do with region for me just for them b/c they need to use it as somting to put them selves above each other.

i just can't blive u imply that u respect there ideasls when they are so rasicts.

i understand u can respect poleops ideas and bifflecs with out bielving them your self but i can not respect them if they are blatly rastics and pergists agests other poleop. also i can not respect poleops ideas who are poorly formed and based on iggnrocane (not saying yours are i am talking about the cirstion coltion witch i have been for the last 3 posts. and for some reason u seem bent on defending)

using your litte system of respect ideas there the KKK whould still be around today and trying to kill any one who is not white.

[jonos]

ok, you are right. i was not defending the beliefs of the christian coalition, i was defending the need to respect their beliefs. the pat person did not say that heathens would not get rights, he said they would not be allowed in government, and though i do not believe this is right, it is still different then those "heathens" not having rights.

the ideas of the kkk will always be around, racism exists everywhere and will take a long time to end.

maybe im not making myself clear enough with the respect issue. respecting the fact that others have opinions and have formulated those opinions by themselves or by the help of others and have thought hard about them and believe in them is great (the respect part). is it not important that we can respect other's opinions, as we respect other's races, or respect other's gods. i am not trying to defend the christian coalition (and if i was before it was my mistake through ignorance), but i am trying to defend the need to respect those opinions.

i refuse to say anymore, because this should end, we both believe in what we want to believe and we are sticking to those so this is pointless.

oh ya, yes, i also believe that the christian coalition's beliefs are based on ignorance, but i also respect the fact that they are their beliefs.

[Dan]

yes ending this whould be good, but i have to say some more. 1st of all acourding to the arican constion, being able to holed an govemnt postion is a right. this was also a big isue in the womens and black movments b/c they side women and blacks could not hold public office. also they are saying that they should not be citzecnts, witch takes atone of rigths away.

also i do respect the fact that others can have diffrent bifflece but when they start imposing them on others like if saying that stuff it gets out of hand and needs to be stoped no matter what they say they are repseting (god or other wise).

Quote:

is it not important that we can respect other's opinions, as we respect other's races, or respect other's gods.

dose that not get in to problems like how the crstion coltion's bifles are agested other races, regions and gods?

also them whonting to join curch and state is not going to be good for other poleop that are not cirsiton. i can see how poleop think i am nuts of being so agest them b/c you say "who cares what buch of nuts in the u.s. thnk?" but the problem is they are almost in total conrotal of the U.S., they prity much own bush and the republican party. just think about how bush is trying to make it law in the costion that gay's cant mary...making him the 1st persident ever to take rights away from poleop in the constion.

any how, i think it is posbale to have a world where there is non of this dum rasit crap, perduime and war. but just satnding buy will not get us there. think about it if we where to totaly get ride of the idea of recisium and live together in peac for just awhile the new gernations whould have no conspet of this crazyness. there is no reason why we have to be this way. it all comes from stuber poelop fixed in there ideas about how one races, fath or poleop are better then another. it is posable to live in peac but just not going to be easy to get there.

NOTE: i whould just like to add that even tho i may seem angery in thess debates i never realy am, i just like debating and whould never go nuts and like ban some one for disagering with me . also i in no way whont poleop to agagry with me, it whould be no fun if u did

[jonos]

you are totally right about the whole racism and how it should be done away with.

i will only say one thing against what you said, because like every debater, i want the last word, and you do to, so now its a competition who can get the last word in.

anyways, many conservatives (not me though, im kind of like a newer, more open conservative), are against gay marriage, even if they are not religious. conservatives (and republicans) believe in the whole traditional family thing (even schwarzenegger), and that is against gay marriage.

but i have a question i just want to get cleared up. you don't like the christian coalition, but are you against christians (just a simple question), because though some people at my church (im forced to go by my dictatorial parents) are racist, the great majority are open to immigrants and those of other races. and i whole heartedly agree with you about the racism present in the christian coalition, its stupid, and its prejudiced, and its not needed. and thankyou for clarifying that you respect that others have beliefs, that what i thought you didn't respect, and not respecting that is just as bad as saying things that coalition pig fuck said, so thankyou.

and i also agree, that a state run by the church is not the best idea, look at iran (though it wouldn't be the same as that). our democracy would slowly turn into a theocracy which practically comes authoritarian. and if you've ever read a book called jupiter (forget the author), the leaders called the "new morality" have messed up the way things are. so, to hopefully end this, i respect your opinion, i am in awe of the arguments you avhe put forward (even my civics teacher hasn't had that many), and i was never scared you'd ban me, cause i know you're not an asshole, though i was waiting for maverick to just say "jonos better watch out dan will ban him" cause that would be funny. nice debating, hopefully we can find something else to debate about that is less about stuff ingrained into our minds and etched in stone as they are.

[Dan]

jonos wrote:

but i have a question i just want to get cleared up. you don't like the christian coalition, but are you against christians (just a simple question), because though some people at my church (im forced to go by my dictatorial parents) are racist, the great majority are open to immigrants and those of other races.

i whould hate the coalition no matter who it was run by as long as they whre racist. i do not like orgasided realgion at a hole. but that dose not mean i spiflky dislike poleop who are regiols, just that orgaise relgion seems to end up with poleop geting killed and such.

so to awser that i am not against christians any more then i am agested any other orgased region. i repseted there blfies as long as they dont invale me or any one eltes that dose not whont them.

[jonos]

i also have something against organized religion, cause when im at churcha nd i actually listen sometimes it sounds like a cult saying insane things together. everyone says cults are evil and everything, but then a church is practically like the same thing, except their beliefs are orthodox and about god. and the comment about peple beloning to a religion and gettin gkilled is absolutely true. look what jihad has done, look what the catholics and the other guys (forget name) did to eachother in england in the 16/17 hundreds. its crazy.

[PaddyLong]

dude... the terms "organized religion" and "cult" might as well mean the same thing (they already pretty much do any way...) seriously, the world would be a much better place with no organized religion.