Help me Prepare

[Elfah]

I'm a student who wants to be a Software Engineer / Developer.

I'm confused & full-on stressed for the past weeks! I need some help and tips on whats better and stuff.

- Computer Science Co-Op or just Computer Science?
- Would I need to take math courses in university? (I suck at math but awesome at coding)
- I'm probably going to get around 70-75 avg, would Uni's accept me?
- I'm doing horrible in both maths but not too bad & Probably receiving a 80% in English.
- Is computer science hard, medium, easy in university?
- Is Ryerson a good university to apply to?
- Is Guelph Humber a good university to apply to?

Please help me & clear out my thoughts, I've been stressing like crazy these past weeks...

[Raknarg]

1) As far as I can tell, absolute yes for co op. Im pretty sure almost all jobs ask for at least three years of relevant experience, getting that on your own will be more difficult (though not impossible, mind you)

2) You will probably need to take math courses. I cant speak for every university and every program, but Im in general comp sci and I have a bunch of math I need to take. Get to work studying, math is a very useful skill in programming.

3) Maybe Carleton, but dont rely on a 70-75. Get at least an 80, if not more. Think of the scholarships!

4) That's always good, a high marking U level course is an asset. If you decide you want to go to a higher level university, you'll probably need a good standing in English (like in waterloo, it's necessary to get in).

That said, Math is way more relevant and you'll actually be taking courses on it. DO your best to learn it and get as much help as possible. In Carleton, I actually needed Calculus and grade 12 Functions to get accepted.

5) First year, for the computer science classes, are an absolute joke if you have experience, but take advantage of the time to try to get some deeper knowledge, don't spend your money on classes to waste your time.

6) No idea

7) No idea

This is all what I think btw, might be wrong. Other input?

[andrew.]

I'm not in computer science so I can't speak for most of the things on your list. But I believe that coop is extremely helpful and you should take it if you have the option. Not only does it give you relevant work experience in your field like Raknarg said, but it also let's you try different companies and experiences so you know what you like and what you don't like so you don't have to figure that out after school (which is a lot harder). I'm currently in a coop program at UW and it is one of the best things about the school.

[DemonWasp]

Some of many answers may be specific to UWaterloo, because I've never attended any other university.

1. Take co-op if you can, it will get you work experience and (if you're lucky) enough money to make it out of university with relatively little debt.

2. Yes. Computer Science is a branch of applied mathematics. Despite the name, "computer science" doesn't necessarily involve physical computers; it's mostly about different models of computation. About 1/3 of your courses will be math (the course name might be "CS" but many of those are really math courses).

3. Some, but not the best (that is, not UWaterloo or UofT, and probably not several other big-name universities).

4. Get your average above 80% (and ideally, above 85%). Focus on your English and Math marks first.

5. Hard. I have no doubt that computer science is the field for me and my admissions average (for UWaterloo) was 93% (including 90%+ marks in math courses). I still had a really hard time dealing with the amount of math required by the CS program at UWaterloo.

6 & 7. University choice depends on what you want out of university. Universities don't vary between "good" and "bad"; there are many characteristics that matter to figure out whether a given university suits you. For example (not a complete list):

- Do you care about where you live? Go tour near the university and figure out what living there would be like.
- Do you care about the campus quality? Go tour the university itself.
- Do you care about how employers perceive the quality of that school? Go here: http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/rankings/
- Do you care about what courses are offered? Google for "(school name) undergraduate calendar".
- Do you care about what scholarships and bursaries are available? Look for "(school name) financial assistance".
- Do you care about work opportunities? Look into the co-op program; if that doesn't exist, then look for "(school name) employment help"

If there's something else you care about specifically, then either look it up or ask here.

[mirhagk]

Even if you can't get into co-op, still get a summer job through university. The experience is awesome

[Raknarg]

can you do that?

[Elfah]

Thank you guys for all the help! It is much appreciated. I'm going to need to boost up my math marks otherwise I'm doing fine! Thank you guys for the help.

[Elfah]

Is there any coding language I should learn before I go into university? I know Java pretty well now.

[Night]

Quote:

- Computer Science Co-Op or just Computer Science?

Co-op if you can (i.e. I would only apply to co-op programs, hope you get in, and take it from there). If you don't, just make sure you get experience otherwise. You can likely apply to co-op once you're in university (e.g. after first year), but that's not guaranteed.

Quote:

- Would I need to take math courses in university? (I suck at math but awesome at coding)

Yes, but how many depends on the school/program. For example, Guelph's CS program requires Calculus I but nothing else strictly "math" besides that, by course code anyways - if you look at a program calendar and only see one or two "MATH*XXXX" courses, don't assume that there won't be others in other departments (e.g. Discrete Structures is a CIS course here, but deals with algebra and the like).

Quote:

- I'm probably going to get around 70-75 avg, would Uni's accept me?

As others have said, probably not the "big name" ones, but there are schools that have lower entrance requirements (e.g. I think UOIT, Windsor, and some of the other smaller/newer schools). I'm not saying (only) apply to those, especially if you plan on raising your average, but to answer your "Would universities accept me with a 70-75 average?" question: yes, there are some that likely would.

Quote:

- I'm doing horrible in both maths but not too bad & Probably receiving a 80% in English.

"Horrible but not too bad" - nice one. I had mid-high 70s for Advanced Functions and Calculus, and a similar English mark (80% at second semester midterms, 77 or something from grade 11), and I got accepted to all schools and most programs (I received an alternate offer from Waterloo because they had too many applicants for CS so they offered the people with lower averages something else) - I applied to Waterloo, Guelph, and two programs at Carleton (CS in Game Dev and Interactive Multimedia), all co-op. My average was 82-84% for the first and second round of offers, and 81% for the third.

In terms of succeeding in University math, I struggled in Calc I, but that's because I had personal issues I was dealing with at the time so it kind of distracted me from putting my full effort into the course so don't go by me. I often went to see my prof during his office hours to have him explain stuff, and when he did there I understood it fine for the most part so you should be okay if you have decent math marks, can generally grasp most concepts, and use the resources available to you if you need help.

Quote:

- Is computer science hard, medium, easy in university?

I think everyone finds different parts of it easier/harder than others. You may be a strong programmer, but can you say the same when put in front of proofs or having to make your own data structures? I know people who find learning and applying programming languages difficult, but they can understand the theory behind things and solve proofs a lot better than I can.

Quote:

- Is Ryerson a good university to apply to?

Can't say. But, also take into account where the school is located and if you're okay with living in that area.

Quote:

- Is Guelph Humber a good university to apply to?

I'm not sure if it falls under "university" or "university-college". Also I don't know if they still offer a Computing program - I think they merged it with the main campus? I can answer Guelph questions if you have any, though. I'm in my second year of Software Engineering here, which at Guelph is essentially a more applied CS program - for example, there's more of a focus on software methodologies and working in a team than coming up with complex algorithms and the theory behind them. You still do stuff like that, but you take less courses on it. For instance, CS majors have to take Discrete Structures I and II, whereas SE majors here only have to take Discrete Structures I but have to take Software Design III when the CS majors would be taking Discrete II (or you can take both if you want, providing your schedule allows it).

If you were to apply to Guelph's main campus, though, you will probably need an average of over 80 if you want co-op; I originally received an alternate offer without co-op when I had an 82-84 average (first semester/grade 11 marks), and then they sent me a "full" offer with co-op in May once they got my midterm marks (81%). You may be accepted to the non-co-op program with an average between 77-79, but that's not guaranteed - I think 77 or 78 was the cut off the year I applied. They also don't accept that many students - 120 the year I applied, 160 last year; I think 1000-1500 students apply in total each year, but I can't really remember the exact numbers. Not saying you wouldn't get accepted with your current average, but you would likely receive an offer later on (e.g. third round of admissions in May) if you were accepted, and you may not receive co-op but you can try to switch in after your first year. I guess what I'm going for here is: you would probably be on the lowest end of the scale with an average below 80 for Guelph (main campus). Not sure about Guelph-Humber, if they still offer a Computing program, that is.

Elfah @ Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:25 pm wrote:

Is there any coding language I should learn before I go into university? I know Java pretty well now.

It depends on the school - some schools start you off with Java, some Python, some C, and Waterloo does Scheme I think - it really depends where you go. But, if you know one or two already fairly well and are able to pick up others fairly easily, you should be fine wherever/most places.

Raknarg @ Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:49 pm wrote:

3) Maybe Carleton, but dont rely on a 70-75. Get at least an 80, if not more. Think of the scholarships!

Yeah, I don't know about Carleton accepting that low. They have some pretty good scholarships (they offered me $8000 with my mid-80s average, not including bursaries), but you also have to keep an 80% average in university to retain them I believe (true at most places I think, but I read somewhere that only something like 18% of students at Carleton do; can't speak for other schools).

Raknarg @ Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:33 pm wrote:

can you do that?

Depends on your school probably, but I know Guelph offers career services and (I think) job postings for non-co-op students.

[DemonWasp]

Focus on picking up your grades. Once you get them to a safe level (where you can be sure you'll get in to a university somewhere nice) then you should pick up languages like:

- Python
- Scheme or Lisp
- C

Those are the languages most commonly used in computer science education.

You might also look at Maple and MATLAB, though those aren't free.

[mirhagk]

Raknarg @ Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:33 pm wrote:

can you do that?

Certainly. You may or may not get help from your university, but there's nothing stopping you from finding your own job. It's not like your university disallows you from applying for jobs.

For most universities the co-op section merely means they help you find jobs (at my university one of the staff was bold enough to say they guarantee you a job if you're in computer science/software, but that's not actually true). I don't think employers look at the co-op any different than a regular degree, they look at the experience rather. If you can find your own jobs then it doesn't make a huge difference.

Worst case scenario, work with a startup for small pay/equity. Sure it doesn't pay well, but you should be getting job experience through university, so it's better than no job.

[Raknarg]

I feel like finding your own would be better than coop too, because I have to pay to do coop whereas finding your own is free

[Night]

Raknarg @ Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:36 pm wrote:

I feel like finding your own would be better than coop too, because I have to pay to do coop whereas finding your own is free

It's small fee ($200/year here I think) and you get a ton of resources to help, so it kind of evens out I think.

[DemonWasp]

The co-op program at UWaterloo is over $500/term and it's still worth it. They really do make finding a job with relatively few skills and next-to-no experience much easier and more friendly.

If I recall correctly (no guarantees) then you can also search for jobs outside of the co-op program if you're that driven. There may be some kind of obligation to take the co-op job over the other job, though, so do your research first.

[Raknarg]

You guys are lucky. Carleton it seems to be at least 2000 per term.