Bill 115 is a nuisance to students, and Whats Going to happen?

[mirhagk]

Oh yeah there are doctorates in education, and those should be rewarded, but a doctorate in another field shouldn't be rewarded (masters in biology should count for nothing more than a bachelors in biology, and both should require teacher specific training).

I'm not using the TED talk as a citation, I'm using stats posted by hwdsb. I just happen to agree with the TED talk and Bill Gates talks about the exact same problems the states has.

Looking through your posted link, it's sad how terrible the world's education is, with 4/10 adult Canadians not literate enough to do most jobs. Also that only 3% of graduates are in computing fields is also sad, when that is the one industry where the number of jobs is growing a ridiculous amount. Only 20% for all the life science, engineering and math courses is also sad, because those are the fields where the good jobs are (on average people with those degrees earn 2x as much as people with other degrees).

Yes Canada is number 2 overall, but we are close to worst on a LOT of things (lowest PHd grads out of everyone), and the US which is worst overall has the best high school completion rate. The worst part is that Canada is not improving on things like literacy rates.

We need to educate the entire world a lot more, not just Canada. This bill doesn't really effect education nearly as much as many other problems, so to be honest I don't really care which way it goes, so long as the other problems get taken care of.

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

But The main Argument is why do students have to suffer? Like seriously, Usually i go to teh library after School waiting for the bus, Now the library is closed. There are security guards in every corner in the school. and we can run After school clubs

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

I'd wish students didn't need supervision for after school activities

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

The Main problem is that we Need to solve our porblems at the same time try helping 3rd world nations as well. If the next generation isnt educated then the world will fall in chaos. The US doesn't matter, We need to resolve these issues and then help other nations!

[mirhagk]

Well it's good that only after school activities are affected right now. If actual classes get cancelled then it's a big problem, but students can run after school activities themselves (just not at the school), and for the major ones (sports, band etc) there are tons of groups out there you can join that aren't affiliated with schools.

But it is funny how the "putting the students first" bill brings about a fight where students are used as pawns. It isn't fair to the students, but maybe it is time we consider whether public school is an essential service or not. Maybe it is time we evaluate whether it's acceptable to rely on private schools and clubs or not.

[md]

AntoxicatedDevil78 @ 2012-12-13, 10:41 am wrote:

But The main Argument is why do students have to suffer? Like seriously, Usually i go to teh library after School waiting for the bus, Now the library is closed. There are security guards in every corner in the school. and we can run After school clubs

Students suffer because teachers aren't putting in extra time and are cutting back their activities to the bare minimum in order to put pressure on the government to try and force it back into negotiations. All you can do as a student is encourage both sides to sit down and work together to reach a new agreement. And seeing as currently it's the government that's being unreasonable, you should start by directing your focus there.

[md]

mirhagk @ 2012-12-13, 11:31 am wrote:

But it is funny how the "putting the students first" bill brings about a fight where students are used as pawns. It isn't fair to the students, but maybe it is time we consider whether public school is an essential service or not. Maybe it is time we evaluate whether it's acceptable to rely on private schools and clubs or not.

Public schools are not an essential service. They may be treated as such by some parents and described as such by certain right-wing leaning groups but that doesn't make it so (it just makes those people lazy and stupid).

Incidentally, the names given to bills very rarely have anything to do with what the bill truely does. They are pure propaganda. Bill 115 doesn't really have anything to do with students, and since the outcry over its contents was easily predictable by passing it the government is in essence putting students second or third behind it's other policies.

[mirhagk]

@md you being a little unreasonable. Whether public schools are an essential service or not is not a black and white thing. You can have your opinion and that's fine, but there is no clear distinction.

There are many services that you could argue either way. Technically anything that's an essential service could be handled by private companies, so if your only argument is that there are other ways to do it, then there is no such thing as an essential service. Yes if public hospitals were shut down today it'd be a huge problem, just like it'd be a huge problem if schools were shut down (as parents would need to find babysitting at the very least, and any service that suddenly is required is going to be overloaded to the max). Long term though both would be sustainable as not a public service. In fact we don't technically need a government at all, we don't need any public service, or anything. That is called pure capitalism and our friends south of the border are much more excited about pure capitalism than we are here. Here in Canada the general consensus is that of a socialist-capitalist country.

It's not a black and white area, every public service has it's own reasons why it might be considered an essential service, and why it shouldn't be considered an essential service. Can you easily assign the following to essential or not essential:
Ambulence Staff
Fire Department
Emergency Response Police
Hospital staff
Urgent Care Center Staff
Detectives (or any non-emergency response police)
Traffic Police
Water company workers (both waste water and other water)
Power company workers
Gas company workers
Garbage men
Park staff


And just for fun, what about MPs?

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

Well to change this, you need action, not protests, because there aren't enough guys to Chnage the governments mind, instead people should do it like how Vancouver did it when there taxes were raised. One person can't do anything, untail he does something that would make other do it and fight against teh government.

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

(Not to everyone)

Most people are greedy,
If you die nobody cares

So, the bill will damage for a while, maybee years, because people wont standup for anyone, only some of the people will stand up.

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

There is one thing everyone shud do, design a protest, work with other students and peers to Bring back Extra curricular activities and make teachers happy to stay after hours.

[mirhagk]

actually many teachers are more than happy to stay after hours, that's why they do it. I know teachers that are just as upset about this as students.

And yes people do do lots of stuff, we actually have more people trying to do things then actually thinking about why or how we should do things. I see a severe lack of researchers having any involvement with the government, yet those are the people we want.

Why does our government have a minister of finance who doesn't have a PHd in economics? (James M. Flaherty has a degree in law, not sure if he has a PHd or not).

I actually saw a proposal a while back that I think would be amazing. Basically the government gives funding to researchers, and in return those researchers must serve small terms as advisors. We promote research in Canada, and at the same time get the most intelligent people advising the government on their fields of expertise.

But alas, we live in a world where people cry outrage and want constant change, want to solve problems without thinking about them, and want to be involved when they have no right to be involved.

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

Our government needs some debugging!!
And you should start it!

[mirhagk]

Lol well I am doing what I can, I've joined a local political party so that I can get closer contact with those in charge. I'm considering attending one of the dinners to have a chat with people there.

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

Well good luck!!

I will vote for you!!

IF you need it!!