Wii U

[Dan]

Does any one have a Wii U yet? If so what do you think so far?

I was lucky to get a deluxe model on launch day and so far it's been rather fun tho there still seem to be some software bugs in there OS they need to work out.


Also post your Nintendo IDs in this thread if you want other CompSci.ca members to add you. My ID is Erebus, feel free to add me if you want, just make sure to say who you are on CompSci.ca so i know it's not some random person form Miiverse.

[Panphobia]

I love the game controllers, but not the pad, I find it kind of dumb and pointless. I also love that they added the HD graphics. But I haven't gotten to play it that often, since my brother is hogging it all the time. I got Assassins Creed 3 for it, and I can't wait to play.

[Dan]

Panphobia @ 25th November 2012, 9:10 pm wrote:

I love the game controllers, but not the pad, I find it kind of dumb and pointless.

I relay like being able to play the games (at least the ones that support it) only on the pad with the TV off or something else playing. Also having the TV controls on the gamepad saves me a lot of time trying to find the TV remote each time i want to switch inputs. For game play, I still have mixed feelings about it, but i guess that's why they also have the pro controller.

[mirhagk]

One huge problem with the controller that will always be a burden to the non-casual gamer crowd is that the triggers return a true or false, instead of a value between 0 and 1 on the xbox and ps3. It makes things like racing harder to implement correctly

[Dan]

mirhagk @ 25th November 2012, 9:42 pm wrote:

One huge problem with the controller that will always be a burden to the non-casual gamer crowd is that the triggers return a true or false, instead of a value between 0 and 1 on the xbox and ps3. It makes things like racing harder to implement correctly

The pro controllers have this feature (as did the classic controller on the Wii).

[vahnx]

I've got the deluxe as well. I only have Nintendo Land and Super Mario Bros U. I wish they let you use the classic controller pro from the original Wii on it! I'll add you, I'm fishfishstinks.

[mirhagk]

@Dan where are you getting this information? Everything I've seen so far says the pro controllers have only digital triggers. The movement sticks are analog (it would be complete garbage otherwise) but everywhere it still says either digital, or just doesn't mention.

http://www.screwattack.com/news/wii-u-pro-controllerstill-has-digital-triggers

http://wiiudaily.com/wii-u-pro-controller/

Also on a side note, how many different controllers are actually supported by this console? (And how many of them only work with certain games, like the wii u pro controller)

[Dan]

I think there is a lot of confusion about the controllers for the Wii U, especially since there are two with the word "pro controller" in there name.

The classic controller (which plugs into the wiimote) and the classic pro controller (which plugs into the wiimote) both have analog triggers. The best source for this is the API specs from the home brew community which shows them returning an integer value or the hardware specs from people who have taken them apart.

As for the wireless pro controller, there is litte valid info out about it other then bloggers making wild guesses, as Nintendo is not big on giving specs and there is no home brew for Wii U mode yet. I would assume that the pro controller would have analog triggers as one of the reasons for it is playing game cube virtual console games which have not been released yet (the game cube had analog triggers so this would be needed for full backwards compatibility). It would be simple to find out if some one where to take there controller apart but I have no plans to break mine open any time soon.

It seems silly to make a big deal about it tho, as I have never in my life thought that a game would have been better with analog triggers or even thought about them being missing. I would think hardcore racing fans would just buy wheel and pedals set or use the pro classic controller.

Currently there is only one racing game for the Wii U that i know of which is Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing but it supports all controllers (gamepad, wiimote, wiimote+, pro controller, classic controller, and classic pro controller).

As for the controllers it is up to the game to pick what controllers it supports. Which makes sense, if you have a game that requires touchscreen based commands for game play, you can't expect it to function correctly with wiimotes. Similarly games that require motion controls and a mic like Super Mario Bros U would not work with the pro controller that does not have motion controls or a mic. Since the Wii U has patching capabilities, it is possible for developers to add in more controller options latter on or as DLC.

Edit: Source for the classic and pro classic controller in WiimoteLib: http://learningcentre.mark-pintar.com/docs/html/8c62aadd-9bfa-55af-01bc-733c12a9eb59.htm note the return value of 0 - 255 for the triggers.

Source for the classic and pro classic controller on WiiBrew wiki: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wiimote/Extension_Controllers/Classic_Controller "The left and right trigger buttons are force-sensitive. As the trigger is pressed, a mechanism slides a 30KΩ linear potentiometer."

[mirhagk]

Ah so the classic controllers for the Wii have analog triggers. If there was any games that supported the analog triggers it'd be very easy to check, but if the only racing game is something that supports all controllers, then it likely won't support analog controls (cuz then different controllers would have different capabilities, which is very bad for a console game).

So there are now 6 controllers supported by the wii u? That kinda defeats the whole purpose of a console (unified hardware).

[Dan]

mirhagk @ 6th December 2012, 6:23 pm wrote:

Ah so the classic controllers for the Wii have analog triggers.

The Wii U pro controller might as well, we will have to wait and see. It would be odd if it did not as it is meant to be modeled after the pro classic controller.

mirhagk wrote:

If there was any games that supported the analog triggers it'd be very easy to check,

Or some one could just take the controller apart but i have only seen tear downs of the gamepad and Wii U not the pro controller. The difference between an analog and digital trigger in most games would be so settle it would be hard to tell the difference if you where not looking for it.

Sadly Nintendo makes developers pay for access to there API and docs so it's not something that would be easy to look up on the web.

mirhagk wrote:

but if the only racing game is something that supports all controllers, then it likely won't support analog controls (cuz then different controllers would have different capabilities, which is very bad for a console game).

The racing game in this case is a kart style racing game so it is not going to support it as it is not aiming for realism. It is just hit one button to go and hit one button to break/go backwards.

However, there is no reason why a racing game could not support it on some controllers and not on others it supports. The controllers are already have different capabilities (e.g. motion detection or not) and the player would just use the one they want. For example the sonic racing game has optional support for motion controls (i.e. using the wiimote or game pad like a steering wheel) on some controllers but not others.

mirhagk wrote:

So there are now 6 controllers supported by the wii u?

Sort of, but not from a developers stand point. The classic and classic pro controllers are almost identical in terms of how they work, the only major difference is the button layout and shape of the controller. The wireless pro controller is the same in terms of capabilities as the classic pro controller and only adds analog sticks that can be clicked/pressed and has a slightly different layout. From a developer standpoint they could all be treated like the same controller in most cases.

It should also be noted that the gamepad and clasic/pro controllers all have the same buttons but just in slightly different layouts (and the gamepad having a touch screen and motion plus). All have two analog sticks, all have 4 triggers, etc.

mirhagk wrote:

That kinda defeats the whole purpose of a console (unified hardware).

Now that's just being silly. All last gen consoles had multiple controllers and just like the Wii U it will be a bigger mess in the current generation. The xbox 360 for example has the wireless controller, the wired controller, media remote, speed wheel, Kinect (which has multiple control methods in it's self), keyborad support (e.g. Xbox ChatPad), and probably others I can't think of. When the next generation of Xbox comes out, there will likely be an even bigger mess if they support any kind of backwards compatibility.

Having as many controllers as the Wii U does is a problem for users in terms of cost and confusion over what they are buying (Nintendo relay did a poor job naming and marketing this console and accessories), but i have a hard time seeing it being an issue for developers when it is up to them to pick what controllers there games support (unlike with the PC where they have to support what ever hardware there user might happen to have).

[Dan]

On a different Wii U topic, I found it interesting that the Wii U browser supports some limited scripting for the gamepad and wiimotes using javascript.

See http://wiiubrew.org/wiki/Internet_Browser#Wii_U_Scripting_Functionality

Apparently the browser exposes many controller functions (including accelerometer and touchscreen data) through a special wiiu object allowing for sites to make custom web applications just for the Wii U. This could lead to some interesting HTML5 browser based indie games for the Wii U.

[mirhagk]

That is actually pretty awesome, because I actually needed to develop an application that utilizes the wii motes, so I just gotta get a wii u, and make it browser based.

Yes the Xbox may have released different controllers, but the only ones actually used by the majority of games is the regular controller. The Kinect is supported by a couple of games, but not many, and most people don't like the fact that there is a split like that. There is no difference at all between the wireless and the wired controller other than the connection to the xbox. The developer can't even tell a difference if they wanted to, so there's really only a single controller.

If you don't count different versions of the essentially same control you still have the Wii motes, the Wii U controller, the wii u pro, and the classics (maybe the last 2 are similar enough, but some guys might only support one or the other because of the difference in controls, specifically clicking in the thumbsticks). Sure the developers can pick and choose what they support, but it's going to annoy more than one consumer. It's like going back to the old days where only specific graphics cards were supported, because the developers didn't want to support everything under the sun. It's going to the same thing that android has, where some apps look like crap on some devices, or simply don't work, because of the difference in capabilities.

Hardware unification isn't just for the 3rd party developers, it's for the users. It's the one thing Apple had going for them (before they started deviating like recently). I sure hope that the next xbox doesn't have more than a single main controller (kinect is something that would be integrated in, and it's not even a controller really, since it supports multiple people and serves a complimentary purpose oftentimes, rather than replacing). I don't think it's likely that microsoft would release any new system to be honest, with their moving towards unification of their systems, getting marketplace on desktops, a new xbox wouldn't really be the best strategy for them.

[Dan]

mirhagk wrote:

Sure the developers can pick and choose what they support, but it's going to annoy more than one consumer. It's like going back to the old days where only specific graphics cards were supported, because the developers didn't want to support everything under the sun. It's going to the same thing that android has, where some apps look like crap on some devices, or simply don't work, because of the difference in capabilities.

That is hardly a fair comparison at all. All of the Wii U games are playable with just the gamepad, the extra controllers just give more game play options and allow for local muliplayer. This is acutely less limiting then what xbox does with the kinetic as you HAVE to have it to play the game in most cases. The same could be said about the PS move.

mirhagk wrote:

Hardware unification isn't just for the 3rd party developers, it's for the users. It's the one thing Apple had going for them (before they started deviating like recently). I sure hope that the next xbox doesn't have more than a single main controller (kinect is something that would be integrated in, and it's not even a controller really, since it supports multiple people and serves a complimentary purpose oftentimes, rather than replacing). I don't think it's likely that microsoft would release any new system to be honest, with their moving towards unification of their systems, getting marketplace on desktops, a new xbox wouldn't really be the best strategy for them.

Both Sony and Microsoft have plans for a new systems, and the rumors so far is they both will have a new peripheral of some kind. The latest rumor is that Sony is looking into using some kind of argumented reality head set and Microsoft is looking into some kind of projection system. Sony also plans on making a Vita yet another controller for the PS3 (in fact i think there is already some support for it now).

Having a crazy amount of controller options is not going to be unique to Nintendo this generation and it's largely a side effect of backwards compatibility and trying to keep support for both classic controls and new more initiative options.

I do agree that it is going to be confusing as hell for uninformed users and Nintendo is just making the matter worse with naming the new console "Wii U". I hate to think how many kids are going to end up with a Wii or Wii mini for xmass when relay wanting a Wii U.

mirhagk @ 6th December 2012, 11:47 pm wrote:

That is actually pretty awesome, because I actually needed to develop an application that utilizes the wii motes, so I just gotta get a wii u, and make it browser based.

If you want your users using your application on the Wii U it might be a good route to try. However, if you just need Wiimote and/or classic controller support you might want to try some of the tools and libs for windows and linux. You can sync a wiimote with most bluetooth adaptors on your computer with the correct drivers. There is also a program for windows called Glovepie which lets you script a wiimote + accessories to do key presses and mouse movements which work with most games.

It is a shame Nintendo is not more supportive of the homebrew community. At the very least they could put out PC drivers for some of there controllers like Microsoft does with the 360 controller.

[mirhagk]

hmm looking at one of those links it seems like there is actually pretty good .NET support from the homebrew community. I know the people before me had problems, but I think it was because they were trying to use objective-c. They ended up having 2 programs, one that connected to the wii motes and started a server listening on a port, and another that actually connected to the server and used the controls to play the game. I didn't think that much effort would be required, and it looks like it isn't.

I agree, it is a shame when companies aren't supportive of the homebrew community. I love how much microsoft has done in terms of releasing APIs for xbox and kinect, it lets you do some really awesome things. Microsoft doesn't do open software, but at least they make a good effort to make a very thorough sdk, so developers can still be happy. it's frustrating that the wii is completely closed off without being a legitimate development company, planning on making a game, and there's not a lot of love for the homebrew community, luckily the homebrew community is pretty awesome for it.

[AntoxicatedDevil78]

Isn't it all teh same:O