Leap 3D Motion Control System

[Insectoid]

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Wow that is quite optimistic considering they are about 6 months from the release date and the majority of even tech oriented people have yet to even hear about it.

The company only recently revealed itself, and you expect everyone to know about it? They haven't even started advertising yet.

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The fact is that I am not optimistic about a technology that is already in use, and has been in use for years and years to suddenly spark everyone's interest just because they have made it more accurate and cheaper.

The entire problem with these setups WAS accuracy and price. This system simply isn't feasible without high accuracy.

Even modern voice control is still too clumsy for general use. Most of the time, buttons are still faster. That's why it's not very popular. But if someone released a flawless natural voice processor tomorrow, within a year or two it would be in everything. Leap is the same way, except now that 'perfect' solution potentially exists.

You're stuck in the 'this is what they've got, and this is why it sucks' mindset. I prefer to think 'this is what they've got so far, imagine where they'll take it from here'. It can only get better, not worse.

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Don't get me wrong, this company might make some good money, and might even get a great product out there, but it's only a matter of time until someone else takes the idea, builds it into their computer more tightly, colours it white, and puts a picture of an apple on it.

That wouldn't be a bad thing. I'd trust Apple more than anyone to perfect this product. If they make you pay out the ass for it, damn.

[mirhagk]

Of course apple would make your pay out the ass for it, either that or it'd be decently priced but would only work with the newest macs for some unknown reason (*cough* siri *cough*).

Anyways with the LEAP, this could indeed be the direction that we're heading but we're far from massive adoption. This kind of stuff might be cool, but again I prefer precision, and a physical device will be more precise (not necessarily the device itself, but my own control of it).

What would be needed to get this out is for it to be integrated into something and sold as part of that. The reason people have voice control on their phones nowadays is because they are automatically installed, if they were just regular apps, people would be too lazy to go out, pay money, and buy them (going out being metaphorically speaking because it'd be on an app store, so the effort would be minimum).

EDIT: I'm going to make myself clear, I do hope this does pan out, motion control technology is cool, and can lead to all sorts of things that I could REALLY use (for instance the ability to scan real world objects and transform them into 3D models for use in video games, movies etc. Would remove the requirement of having to draw in order to make a good game). I really hope LEAP works out, I'm just doubtful that this will get widely adopted anytime soon (maybe a couple years down the road, unless a big company forces them into the hands of people. like webcams and voice control)

[Insectoid]

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What would be needed to get this out is for it to be integrated into something and sold as part of that.

That's the worst thing I can imagine happening to this product. Remember everything I said about developer adoption and not needing it? This would instantly invalidate that entire point.

Siri is crap anyway. I don't care if I don't have it on my hypothetical phone. Having Apple in charge of it is a sure way to guarantee funding for it though.

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unless a big company forces them into the hands of people. like webcams

You're deluded if you think webcams required a 'big company forcing them into the hands of people'. Even considering the crap quality, the ability to talk to long-distance friends via video chat in real time was too good for people to pass up.

[mirhagk]

Insectoid @ Fri May 25, 2012 12:16 pm wrote:

That's the worst thing I can imagine happening to this product. Remember everything I said about developer adoption and not needing it? This would instantly invalidate that entire point.

I agree 100% that that would be the worst thing that could happen to it, but it's also one that would get it more widely adopted quicker. It's the concept of having Siri (or any voice control) on your phone and actually using it. It's useless unless somebody makes apps for it. However it might also be better for developers as more people would have it.

Insectoid @ Fri May 25, 2012 12:16 pm wrote:

You're deluded if you think webcams required a 'big company forcing them into the hands of people'. Even considering the crap quality, the ability to talk to long-distance friends via video chat in real time was too good for people to pass up.

No webcams didn't require it, but the reason webcams are so widespread is because they come in pretty much every laptop in existence, they don't require extra peripherals. Given enough time webcams would have become widespread regardless, but integrating it into laptops sure sped up the process (turned it from being a side feature of chat programs into a fully fledged feature on it's own programs, ie skype)


EDIT: By the way if you do the math, this effectively has about a 1ft x 1ft x 1ft and Kinect has about 6ft x 6ft x 6ft, so this being 100 times more accurate is really just simple math, looking at a smaller area (considering Kinect has 4x the resolution that they are using, because of processing restrictions, resolution isn't the problem, it's the processing, so shrink the area, shrink the required computations). And considering Kinect has a depth sensor, RGB cameras, and a microphone array for $120, this being $69 (btw kinect was supposed to be $99 but they had to jack up the cost before they released it, so don't be surprised if the same happens here) is really just a product of removing the microphone array. This isn't so much ground breaking technology as using existing technology and reapplying it for a different purpose.

[Insectoid]

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integrating it into laptops sure sped up the process

And you define this as forcing it down consumers' throats? It's the logical course of action! If Leap takes off, I've no doubt it will be integrated into laptops fairly quickly.

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I agree 100% that that would be the worst thing that could happen to it, but it's also one that would get it more widely adopted quicker.

Why would it get adopted quicker? Half of my first post is dedicated to explaining why EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE would cause faster widespread adoption. Did you not read it? If you want to claim the opposite of my hypothesis is true, explain point by point why I am wrong.

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This isn't so much ground breaking technology as using existing technology and reapplying it for a different purpose.

Are the two mutually exclusive?

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By the way if you do the math, this effectively has about a 1ft x 1ft x 1ft and Kinect has about 6ft x 6ft x 6ft...(and the rest of this paragraph)

What does this have to do with anything? Sure, that might be why it's more accurate. I don't care if that's why it's more accurate. The fact is, it's more accurate, and if they can make it more accurate by not sampling a bigger area than they need to, then that's a great way to do it!

[mirhagk]

You could replicate the leap system with a kinect device, removing the microphones (and rgb camera? the video doesn't work so I don't know if LEAP has it) and accepting the higher resolution in a smaller sampling region. It's a different application of the exact same (minus a bunch of neat features in kinect) technology, rather than brand new ground breaking technology.

And yes putting the device integrated into other products is forcing it down consumers throats. The cost of a webcam (or LEAP) is neglible compared to the cost of a computer, so people will buy computers with them, not really caring for the LEAP and preferring not to waste the money, but the alternatives being either crappier computers, or much more expensive computers.

By the way your first post didn't talk about whether developers would adopt it quicker,but rather that it wouldn't need developer adoption. I was saying throwing it into every device under the sun would increase DEVELOPER adoption because developers would be more likely to consider the device when making applications (yes you could use the leap as a mouse in any game, but it only gets really useful once the developer optimizes the controls/menus for LEAP)

[Insectoid]

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I was saying throwing it into every device under the sun would increase DEVELOPER adoption because developers would be more likely to consider the device when making applications

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What would be needed to get this out is for it to be integrated into something and sold as part of that.

'integrating it into something' is very different from 'throwing it into every device under the sun'. Will you please take the care to explain your position more clearly to avoid any confusion in the future?

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By the way your first post didn't talk about whether developers would adopt it quicker,but rather that it wouldn't need developer adoption.

I talked about how the lack of need for developer adoption could spark high initial sales, which in turn sparks developer adoption. You're proposing integrating it into, say, laptops, so people get it weather they want it or not, to force early high adoption, to spark developer adoption. Essentially the same thing. I'm proposing that this will do well on its own, without the help of integration. You think nobody will want it, so it has to be forced into the market. I'm sorry you're so pessimistic.

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The cost of a webcam (or LEAP) is neglible compared to the cost of a computer, so people will buy computers with them, not really caring for the LEAP and preferring not to waste the money, but the alternatives being either crappier computers, or much more expensive computers.

The first computer that ships with this will have 'Integrated LEAP technology!!!' plastered all over the box. It will be the selling feature of that laptop. It will be the reason people buy it.

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You could replicate the leap system with a kinect device, removing the microphones (and rgb camera? the video doesn't work so I don't know if LEAP has it) and accepting the higher resolution in a smaller sampling region. It's a different application of the exact same (minus a bunch of neat features in kinect) technology, rather than brand new ground breaking technology.

You could replicate a video camera by using a motor to wind a bunch of stitched-together film across a lens. But I suppose that wasn't brand new ground breaking technology either.

[mirhagk]

lol, I'm saying kinect with a firmwire upgrade could be the exact same device. Every person I know has lost interest in motion controls, I've shown this to other tech people, hoping to hear so optimism about it, but most people go, oh that's neat I guess, and go back to what they are doing.

Also I REALLY hope people don't buy a laptop because of some peripheral (even though I know that people do, just look at what laptop's put on their covers for advertising)

[Insectoid]

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Every person I know has lost interest in motion controls

It's hard to stay interested when every previous attempt didn't work. Commercial motion control systems are historically crap. People lose interest because to date no system has been released that is accurate enough actually use. If cell phones were still the size of a brick, I'm sure people would've lost interest long ago. But as soon as the tech was made small and powerful enough to be convenient, it was really popular.

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I'm saying kinect with a firmwire upgrade could be the exact same device

That simply shows how brutally ignorant you are of how this technology works. Also, this point is moot, because even if it's so easy to do, nobody has done it before. I don't understand what the relationship this has with kinect has to do with its viability or level of revolutionariness. It's a different product serving a different purpose, using similar technology in a similar price-range.

[mirhagk]

I'm telling you that it's not revolutionary technology. It's the same tech, just targeting a different market.

Also note that current trends are that more consumers are going with laptops/tablets/phones over desktops. This technology might be good when you have a nice area in front of your screen, and where it's not wierd for you to wave your hand around in your house, but even my current position, where I'm in the comfort of my own house, would make it difficult to use this (lying on my bed with a laptop). You'd need a trackpad for all those occasions where this couldn't be used (not enough space, or basically whenever your not playing a game [ie not using the mouse very much]). At best it could supplement the mouse/trackpad, but as this tech stands it could not replace it.

I love seeing new technology, and advancements in technology, and I love motion controls, but this won't take off very much (pre-warning, I'll necro this a couple months after it's release, or in a year's time [whichever comes sooner] to tell you I told you so)