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 DWITE Issues
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saltpro15




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:20 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

Quote:

They found an exploit in the judge that would make it dump the input back to them. I am not going to go in to more detail until i fix the issue.


I call this cheating. submitting Rand.Int's is really more of a joke than cheating, as you really can't expect that to work, but I agree with A.J. the difference between 4th and 40th is too big to overlook because of a loophole
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Saad




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:26 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

A.J wrote:
Saad?!?! You serious?!?! That's not MY definition of cheating...it is just WRONG!


Wrong, perhaps. Is it part of the DWITE definition? No.


A.J wrote:
Why don't you look at the testcases for CCC and then use them to output the desired output? It isn't on their RULES! But it is still considered cheating!!!


Why would it be considered cheating if it is not stated in the rules? According to who is it considered cheating? Can I see the rules for the CCC? Even if the CCC seems to have a different rule that accounts for this, why should it be applied to DWITE if it is not written in the DWITE rules?

Note: I am not trying to troll anyone, I am just trying to show that what they did was not cheating and they did not break the rules as a result of that.

Edit: Rewording for a few sentences.
Syrith




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:06 pm   Post subject: RE:DWITE Issues

The sad part is, they FAILED one of the outputs.
A.J




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:51 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

Syrith wrote:

The sad part is, they FAILED one of the outputs.

yes, apparently they made a manual error while trying to bash out the 5th testcase...
DanielG




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:04 pm   Post subject: RE:DWITE Issues

I don't think it's a manual error, more likely on purpose as to make it less noticeable. I could be wrong though.
saltpro15




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:10 pm   Post subject: RE:DWITE Issues

well, if loopholes like this are how DWITE is going to be from now on you might as well award first place to ever finds the most creative way to cheat. I propose holding Tony and Dan at gunpoint in my basement while the contest is going on. Very Happy anyone have a better idea?

(im jk btw, don't ban me)
A.J




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:11 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

DanielG wrote:

I don't think it's a manual error, more likely on purpose as to make it less noticeable. I could be wrong though.


I don't think so....he can't make it seem less noticeable, it is apparent to anyone who sees his code that he cheated.
DanielG




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:15 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

A.J wrote:

DanielG wrote:

I don't think it's a manual error, more likely on purpose as to make it less noticeable. I could be wrong though.


I don't think so....he can't make it seem less noticeable, it is apparent to anyone who sees his code that he cheated.

true, but if more people had solved it, it is less likely that someone would look at their code (due to preffering to look at 5/5 for the correct solution)
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A.J




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:26 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

That's also true.

They were 4th place (and more noticeably one of the only ones who didn't get a 0 for #5), so it was kinda obvious.....

Daniel, we would have been tied 6th if it wasn't for them...

EDIT : fixed a few words
Tony




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:48 pm   Post subject: RE:DWITE Issues

It was not the expected solution, but neither are solutions that write Rand.Ints or hard-code arbitrary answers in. Lets call this a particular solution, instead of a general solution. DWITE solutions come with heuristics, assumptions, guesses. We can't objectively control for all such factors, across all submissions, although over the last two seasons we've also been learning and tweaking the system to make it more of a challenge.

Some guys (I'm looking at you A.J.) need to chill and realize that the DWITE score (your absolute, and in relation to others) does not carry the same weight as CCC or ECOO do. It's supposed to be some practice; it's supposed to be fun.

The judge does have issues. On some occasions a solution that works locally might not behave as expected in judge's environment. That sucks. Though most teams take note of such gotchas and move on.

I appreciate your opinion and that this fact was brought up. Dan and I will take this as an opportunity to review the rules and the judging process. But fighting to decrease the score of another team is not really in the spirit of DWITE.
Latest from compsci.ca/blog: Tony's programming blog. DWITE - a programming contest.
A.J




PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:31 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

Tony wrote:

I appreciate your opinion and that this fact was brought up. Dan and I will take this as an opportunity to review the rules and the judging process. But fighting to decrease the score of another team is not really in the spirit of DWITE.


You are absolutely right Tony...I am sorry..please accept my humble apology Crying or Very sad

I do realize that this contest is a fun way to review for contests such as CCC and ECOO, and I apologize for acting soo competitive Sad

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Tony and Dan for another awesome season of DWITE. Keep up your good work, and thanks for everything Very Happy
bbi5291




PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:54 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

Did this exploit have anything to do with using an include statement to paste the test data into the source code?
Dan




PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:38 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

bbi5291 @ 26th February 2009, 9:54 pm wrote:
Did this exploit have anything to do with using an include statement to paste the test data into the source code?


No, and i don't see how that could work....
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McKenzie




PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:17 pm   Post subject: Re: DWITE Issues

First, let me say that Tony and Dan have done a fantastic job with DWITE. It was good when Mr. Sentjens started it, but it is GREAT now.

As far as cheating goes (and I think AJ's common sense definition is on the money) I understand why a team would want to ('hacking' Hacker Dan...cool) but I think a score of zero is the correct response. I know you see DWITE as "just a fun contest" to help prepare for CCC and ECOO but a lot of kids give their blood sweat and tears to DWITE and having a fake team in spot 4 means everyone else appears one rank lower. Don't kid yourselves, kids go home and say "hey, we got 11th place in DWITE"
BigBear




PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:48 pm   Post subject: RE:DWITE Issues

If they did not break the rules, what about the fact that they submitted 2 answers.
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