Evolution vs. Creation.

[sylvester-27]

actually the universe is only about 6000-10 000 years old according to new studies. Someone will probably ask "Well what about dinasour bones they are supposed to be millions of years old". Dinosaur bones in later research have been found to be actually only several thousand years old and the reason they were buried so deep and eroded so much is because of the great Flood. The flood (in the old testiment) dumped thousands of tons of soil and sediment on the bones eroding them and buring them deeper then they should have been. Sure to some this may be a sketchy argument but...meh i don't care. If you really don't want to believe this, thats your own choice but if this message gets through to someone and changes their views...more power to you.

[sylvester-27]

um the reason y i believe that animals don't have souls is because if they did they would be hopping and skipping around in heaven right now and also it states in the bible the animals don't have souls only humans "created in the image of god".

[Albrecd]

Quote:

The flood (in the old testiment) dumped thousands of tons of soil and sediment on the bones eroding them and buring them deeper then they should have been.

There are Stories of a "Great Flood" in many cultures, nations, and historical Manuscripts, not just the Bible.

[md]

Why do I have a feeling that some catholic (or equivalent) school found compsci...

As for the bible, it's a story; written 400 years after the fact by the romans. It's entire purpose was to make it easier for the people of rome to accept christianity more easily so that the power structure controling them could continue to function. Anyone who interprets the bible as literally as you few seem to is in serious need of help. The Bible is FICTION. While it certainly contains some good morals that are worth teaching it also contains lots of garbage that should be ignored.

And the Church... don't get me started on the evils of the roman catholic church... it's by far the most horrid organization in existance. Sure it's less active then it used to be, but it's responsable for an unbeleivable amount of the trouble in the world (a majority of the rest being caused by organized religion as a whole).

[Martin]

sylvester-27 wrote:

actually the universe is only about 6000-10 000 years old according to new studies.

1 in 40 billion isn't even that unlikely. Demographers have come up with estimates ranging between 69 billion and 110 billion humans. This gives us a spread of 41 billion, a pretty formidable margin of error. Creationist Christian scientists say that this number is actually around 51 Billion. Give them each a number, and one or two of them will have a specific one of them.

New studies? Like what. Last I checked, this number was in the billions. Not possible, anyway.

icr.org's studies maybe? They have one where they 'prove' that the speed of light is infinite. Great work there.

sylvester-27 wrote:

meant 1 in 40 billion which i have to say is almost inpossible corrisponding to the number of times that evolutionist state the the reason why say the planets orbit the way they do is that something crashed into it.

This is called a strawman arguement. It works like this. I have two theories: 3 x 15 = 12 and 3 x 15 = 50.

I test the first one, and prove that 3 x 15 does not equal 12. This does not mean that I can conclude that 3 x 15 = 50.

sylvester-27 wrote:

Its much easier to just say that some all powerful being (namely God) did it and we don't have to understand it. Isn't that a whole lot easier?

This is the problem with fundamentalist religion. Yes, religion is an easy answer. It makes it easy for someone to close their eyes to the truth. Look at what happened with Galileo. Nothing says that the universe has to be easy. Look at snowflakes. Every single one is different. Is that 'easy' for you?

[Brightguy]

sylvester-27 wrote:

actually the universe is only about 6000-10 000 years old according to new studies. Someone will probably ask "Well what about dinasour bones they are supposed to be millions of years old". Dinosaur bones in later research have been found to be actually only several thousand years old and the reason they were buried so deep and eroded so much is because of the great Flood.

Dinosaur bones have never been found to be several years old. (Unless you could link me to a paper in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.) You've never studied archaeology, I guess. If you want to read some critical material about the global flood, try this page. (You should always read material from both sides of the story, not just the side that pleases you.)

And what about those 'studies' showing the universe is several thousand years old? Have you given them a critical look, or simply choose to agree with them because it fits nicely into your worldview? There is a LOT of evidence about the age of the Earth. Please, review some of the evidence listed here. (This was written by a Christian, especially for Christians.)

[Paul]

Eh, we chinese people have religion too. E.g. My grandmother would go burn fake paper on the anniversery of my grandfather's death. And she has this little shrine with budda and offerings everyday. many people keep the teachings in mind, but they're more of a background thing. You don't go to church or anything. Its truely personal and in no way does it dictate your life.

I find asian religions to be completely different than western/middle eastern religions. Its alot more passive, and less controlling.

[Dan]

sylvester-27, your arugments deterbme me greatly. All of them based of totaly false staments or logical flacies. It sraces me that this kind of debating is being used since it make me feal like socity is slowly trying to brain wash us all with spin docs.

Any how there are some things i whould like to set strait. In the theroy of evlotion it dose not say we evloped form apes, that is illogical, it states that we evloled from ape like creators. 2ndly the bible can not be taken liitery and be ture, since there are conflicks with it's self (both the old and new testment) and between the two and they are not small ones. Also i do not see why if there is a god, why he had to make every spices one at a time and everything one pice at a time? I mean why whould an all powerfull and all knowing being do that? whould it not be more effective to set up a system of recations to make everything from one singal point? (ie. big bang). That seems alot more all powerfull to me.

My perosnal blifes are to complicated to eplain here, but in general i do not know if there is a god or not. When it comes down to it it realy dose not matter if there is one or not.

[Martin]

Another thing.

Evolution is a theory in the same way that gravity is a theory. Science doesn't create facts. Ever. There are no facts. There's absolutely no guarentee that the next time you drop something it will fall. Don't confuse evolution as being just a hypothesis (and in actuality, gravity is much less understood than evolution).

[md]

Martin wrote:

Another thing.

Evolution is a theory in the same way that gravity is a theory. Science doesn't create facts. Ever. There are no facts. There's absolutely no guarentee that the next time you drop something it will fall. Don't confuse evolution as being just a hypothesis (and in actuality, gravity is much less understood than evolution).

Indeed, the theory of gravity has some mighty loop holes, because acording to the hitch hickers guide if you're falling and your attention is completely and wholy distracred right before you hit the ground you'll miss (which causes you to be in the perticular situation where if you think abouthte fact that you should have hit hte ground you will, and since that's imidiately what comes to mind when you suddenly find you've missed the ground it's a bit of a problem).

The problem with compairing religious beliefs to scientific theory is that they are two completely different things. Scientific theories are based upon the premise that they can be proven to be wrong in some way. They model the world (or some part thereof) in a consistant, verifiable, and potentially disprovable way. Religious beliefs on the other hand, are based upon beleif. They can't be disproved, they model nothing, and they are in no consistant or verifiable. How can you compare the two?

As the debate between Intelligent Design and Evolution progresses it seems to me that most people miss this point. The real reason Intelligent Design should not be taught in a science class is that it's not science. If anything it should be put forward in a phylosophy (sp?) class, where it's merits as a system of belief can be debated. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive, they are manipulated into appearing so to push seperate agendas completely unrelated to either.

The problem is that there are people (such as sylvester-27, albrecd, etc.) who take the bible as the exclusive truth. While those few on this site might not be a big problem ('cept that they start topics such as these), when a large group get's together they try and force their opinions (that's really all beliefs are) on everyone. Are they right in their beliefs? Almost certianly not. Do they have a right to be wrong and believe what they want? Yes, thanks to the law. But do they have the right to have their opinions taught as fact? No. The seperation of church and state guaruntees that religious (or religiously based) beliefs are not taught in public schools. It is the law. So the debates in the 'states are not really about the merits of either theory, but rather are an attempt by some to impose their own beliefs on others against the law. Unfortunately people get away with breaking the law all the time, but if an out-right breach like this is allowed then what reason does anyone have to follow the law? What is it then, but a fancy list of things you shouldn't do but can if you really want to?

Personally I'd love to be able to get away with anything on my own; but living in anarchy isn't my idea of fun.

[Martin]

It's like watching a bunch of retards try and hump a doornob.

[Albrecd]

Quote:

Why do I have a feeling that some catholic (or equivalent) school found compsci...

Mackenzie High is in no way a religeouse school.

[sylvester-27]

you guys are all just athiests and somehow i sense that no matter what i say you guys will quote it and make fun of me. i look forward to your insults otherwise this will be quite boring

[codemage]

1. Even within the Christian dogma, it's nowhere acceptable for Christians to pass judgement on others. Heaven or hell is between God & the individual - not some self-appointed mediator.

2. The Bible isn't an encyclopedia. It's like many other ancient document. It has lots of documented, historical facts in it. It also has stories, poetry and allegory. In some places it's difficult to tell which is which or what the author's intention was.

Any history major or faculty will tell you that it is a historical document: the oral histories date to thousands of years BC, and the new testament dates as early as 60-80 AD, not late in the Roman era.

3. One of God's first commandments is for creation to multiply, explore, and develop the earth. Asking why God didn't create all creatures in a final form is like asking why God didn't write every book and movie and song as well. Creation is ongoing. I think a part of that mandate is scientific research. People who call themselves Christians shouldn't accept lame-ass answers instead of discovering the world through science, etc. for themselves. Easy answers are rarely the right ones.

4. "Science and religion are not mutually exclusive."
Exaaaaactly.

Furthermore, if your approach as a Christian is proselytizing people by telling them they're going to hell, and that scientists are liars - you should just get it over with and beat them with a stick. That'll convert them good.

Let me summarize: your approach is extremely offensive.

[sylvester-27]

actually that commandment isn't one of the ten commandments and the first commandment i think is "Love the lord your God with all you mind, you sol, and your heart" something like that.