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wtd




PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:43 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

bugzpodder wrote:
speed is an issume... but with speed alone wont get you far in the competition. Does solving difficult challenges in a set time frame against the best programmers in the world sounds appealing to you?


No. Solving difficult challenges with the best programmers in the world sounds appealing to me.

This is why I've asked for help here with things like creating a viable alternative to Turing for introductory Computer Science education. That's a difficult challenge. Perhaps not in the sense of coding, but it's a difficult challenge nonetheless.
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bugzpodder




PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:11 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

hehe... well, if you are looking for world-class programmers, surely you've came to the wrong place Wink
md




PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:45 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Hey now... I'm world class! I'm even in a class of my own!
zylum




PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:42 am   Post subject: (No subject)

there are also design and development competitions... you might be interested in those.. you can earn lots of cash that way too Wink
bugzpodder




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:27 am   Post subject: (No subject)

wtd wrote:
bugzpodder wrote:
speed is an issume... but with speed alone wont get you far in the competition. Does solving difficult challenges in a set time frame against the best programmers in the world sounds appealing to you?


No. Solving difficult challenges with the best programmers in the world sounds appealing to me.

This is why I've asked for help here with things like creating a viable alternative to Turing for introductory Computer Science education. That's a difficult challenge. Perhaps not in the sense of coding, but it's a difficult challenge nonetheless.


actually i am quiet fond of the idea of a programming project by memebers at compsci. However, it is usually the case that most such projects will be abandoned due to lack enthusiasm/responsibility midway. Of course, it also doesnt help when all of us have different language preferences and backgrounds. Perhaps some of you remembers projectT Smile www.geocities.com/bugz_podder/projectt.html
just my failed attempt Smile
[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:57 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Heh, a project in Turing... I guess if there were a lot of people working on a project you could get something good done even on Turing (and seeing as how it's the most popular language here...)
Also, I remember that the d-team was making a 3d OpenGL space shooter game, but that stopped being worked on for some reason.

I'm up for a project, but I can only help on varying degrees (depends what language). The Turing modification got pretty far, and I'm inclined to say that it's not dead just temporarily delayed for motivational purposes.

So, what about it? We have quite a few experienced people here, and if everyone joined forces we could make something good! Smile
[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:07 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

*edited*
rizzix




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:12 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Bah! I've joined a top secret group here in compsci. I can't tell you the name for various reasons... We've lost interest too.. Like we did nothing so far, and i believe more that 6 months have passed....

Seriously with such a small community nothing much is possible. I mean we could start up a project with a few dedicated programmer and the rest can join in and leave whenever they fell like doing so. THis works best in the opensource world. It should work likewise the same here. But, where are those few dedicated fools? Confused
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Hikaru79




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:30 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

rizzix wrote:
But, where are those few dedicated fools? Confused

Someone called?

Seriously, though, there are a few projects I'd like to do as a group with a bunch of compsci.ca people. I like all of them, but I don't have time to do them alone.

a) A Turing IDE (in Java, prefferably, because the point is to be cross-platform): Yes, wtd, I know the last thing Turing beginners need is an IDE to get lost in, but I want to do it for a few reasons. First, there's no Linux editor for Turing. Second, I want to play with the NetBeans platform (or Eclipse). Third, perhaps, just perhaps, it would encourage some more Turing activity by the more advanced programmers in compsci.ca .

b) Chess Engine . I orginally thought of this as a sort of challenge, but I have a feeling we'd just end up with 3 or 4 entries anyway. So perhaps a collaborative effort? There's lots of interesting things we could experiment with this one. Database parsing for some sort of learning system (pattern recognition based on a database of hundreds of thousands of professional games, which are very very easy to come by), some sort of genetic algorithms, etc.

And, well, I've thought of more at odd times but never really posted about them. I'd like to see something, anything started, but I have this dreadful feeling that its going to flop due to school, work, lack of interest, etc. Sad
bugzpodder




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:42 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

we have enthusiasm, but lack dedication

IDE is *way* too hard. On a scale of 1 to 100 with 100 being hardest, this is a 95-ish thing. In order to make it, you have to know first how it will work. If you just know how an interface works, thats far from the goal. besides, that also involves writing a turing interpreter... not the easiest thing in the world...

chess engine challenge will get you 0 entries, for sure. collaborative effort doesnt sound too bad... still I wouldnt recommend it.

and an open source community just simply wont work. Reading someone else's source would be a tough enough challenge that few could manage, not to mention making changes.

but seriously though... i doubt it'll work out. I've had a difficult time getting people just to work on our assignments from university (you know who you are Wink ) a week before its due...
[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:00 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

Stop the negative thoughts!! We can make this, there just has to be enough input. This isn't and assignment, but a fun project Smile.

Myself, I could add to a Turing IDE, but well... It is hard, and it really wouldn't be worth it (not many people care).

Chess, that I could add a ton to. I started working on a simple chess game yesterday, and so far I have a simple interface done. I plan on adding the rules, checkmate and everything you need, and maybe later an ai (probably just some simple min-max for now).
Hikaru79




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:14 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

bugzpodder wrote:
IDE is *way* too hard. On a scale of 1 to 100 with 100 being hardest, this is a 95-ish thing. In order to make it, you have to know first how it will work. If you just know how an interface works, thats far from the goal. besides, that also involves writing a turing interpreter... not the easiest thing in the world...

Well, I was planning on quite a few shortcuts for the IDE. For one, we use the NetBeans or Eclipse platform and build on top of that.

As for the interpreter ... well, that's the iffy part. I was planning on writing to Holt and asking for a stand-alone interpreter, without the editor window, which we could just call. If not, I'm sure that by ordering the Linux version, we could work with that to achieve a similar effect. And anyways, didn't you write a Logo interpreter in grade 11 or 12? You have sk1llz Smile
bugzpodder




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:07 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

LOGO Interpreter is thrown together using an addon arithmetic parser and a space sensitive command parsing. so its a fake. but i have written a simple c++ parser for one of the classes i had to take in university, but it still doesnt support much (only functions/procedures). ripping off others is an interesting idea. but its gotta be the boring-est task around... especially if you have to read off and unuderstand someone else's source code.

chess is not a bad idea... but the AI is just to darn hard... maybe an easier game should be considered at first.
its not a bad idea to practice a few things with it. for example, instead of just going for a recursive minimax call, maybe considering storing data to disk for example so we could maybe solve connect 4. after all, its much more gratifying to have a connect 4 engine that always wins then a chess engine that anybody could beat.

I am waiting for wtd's inputs. where is he? Confused
Hikaru79




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:14 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

bugzpodder wrote:
I am waiting for wtd's inputs. where is he? Confused

He's in the IRC channel. Apparently, he hasn't been able to connect to compsci.ca for the past two days. He says he can't even ping it, it just appears completely offline to him. It's the strangest thing... =/
[Gandalf]




PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:25 pm   Post subject: (No subject)

The problem is, tic-tac-toe isn't really fun when you can just program all the possibilities by hand in a few lines - then (if the person has any brains at all) the game will always be a tie.

Games like chess are good because not only are they challenging and fun (matters on opinion, I know...), but every game is different making programming actually creative in some way. It would be hard, but we would have to start off simply programming the rules in anyway, then for an AI we could use an opening database and then just have some basic min-max tree searching. It would be a sort of, continual improvement project.
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