Waterloo vs Carleton

[Canadaboy]

I'm considering going into math and/or computer science. I live in Ottawa, so it'd be much easier (and cheaper) to go to Carleton than it would be to go to Waterloo. I plan to do co-op either way (I know Waterloo has the best co-op program, but Carleton's is apparently fairly sizeable too.) I'm wondering, how huge is the difference between Carleton and Waterloo going to be? Will the job opportunities be any different?

Also, somewhat of a different topic, but: I do like computer science and feel I'm all-right at it (I enjoy things like the CCC or otherwise fooling around with code, and I got 88ish in ICS4UG), but my strongest interests are more in mathematics and economics. I feel like compsci is safer career-wise, but do you think compsci majors have much better job opportunities than math or economics majors?

[Nathan4102]

# of students enrolled in Waterloo co-op: >17,000

# of student enrolled in Carleton co-op: <2,000

I know Waterloo has more job opportunities, but there's also a lot more competition. I don't know a whole lot about it, just thought I'd share those numbers.

[Tony]

Canadaboy @ Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:08 pm wrote:

I'm wondering, how huge is the difference between Carleton and Waterloo going to be? Will the job opportunities be any different?

In a word, yes. Industry's view of Canadian schools is currently very much along the lines of: Waterloo/UToronto, (if the company is in Pacific NorthWest then also UBC as 2nd tier choice), and everything else.

That being said, once you get to the interview stage, it doesn't matter too much what school is on your CV. You will be tested on the skills that you actually have (the subject of how much skill you can pick up at one school vs. another is a different matter, and gets a lot more subjective). You'd just have to try harder to get past that initial HR filter.

On a different note -- there is a lot of benefit in going to school that's further away. If you grow up in Ottawa, and go to school in Ottawa, and have a career in Ottawa, there will be limited diversity and amount of life experience. One gets complacent from staying in one place. A really big advantage of UWaterloo is that most co-op happens outside of the city (Toronto taking the bulk, but some international experience as well), and it trains students in those valuable skills of packing their life into a suitcase and throwing themselves into a very new situation for a while.

[Raknarg]

I heard that the work load at Waterloo is considerably larger compared to most schools, so you should be wary of that. It's the reason my friend chose McMaster over Waterloo.

[Tony]

Alternatively, one can also major in arts instead of a technical degree. A career in artisan coffee brewing is not as demanding, and can still be rewarding. Likely not financially rewarding, but there are other perks... probably.

The above was somewhat of a hyperbole, but the point is that the benefit one gets out of University is proportional to the effort they put in. UWaterloo is demanding, but those that get through the program are granted the benefit of assumption that they are of a higher caliber.

That being said, if one knows that their work ethic is not up to par, and are not interested in working harder, then there is little benefit in dropping out of a top tier school. McMaster is the right choice for some people.

[[Gandalf]]

Tony @ 2013-10-27, 10:35 pm wrote:

That being said, if one knows that their work ethic is not up to par, and are not interested in working harder, then there is little benefit in dropping out of a top tier school. McMaster is the right choice for some people.

That being said, the workload at McMaster will not be particularly light either. I don't know too much about CS at McMaster, but you should be prepared to work much, much harder going into university.

[Raknarg]

That's just from what I've heard, not experience.

[btiffin]

Unless things have changed dramatically since the 1980's, you will be faced with a lot more midweek and harder weekend parties at Carleton.

So, old guy opinion. Waterloo for school, come back to Ottawa for letting loose.

In my particular case; started in Waterloo, co-op program brought me to Ottawa, (which is home now) and roomies were from Carleton. Dave Wilcox rocked the place. This was for work terms, and I don't think I'd have wanted that environment during studies.

By the by, 'faced with' doesn't mean you need to partake or anything, (and Waterloo is big enough that if you really want to find people dancing on a Tuesday, you'll find people dancing on a Tuesday).

Cheers

[Canadaboy]

Hey guys, thanks for the advice.

I'm planning to apply to both universities anyway, so I still have awhile to decide. I guess I'm just trying to figure if the benefits of going to Waterloo (better program, perhaps better job opportunities, etc) outweigh the costs.

I'm partly just afraid that I might get stuck working for the federal government in Ottawa if I go to Carleton...

[Raknarg]

The government is an option around here, but I am told that there is a lot of options when it comes to the computer science industry. Not only that, but you aren't restricted to Ottawa, anyways.

[TerranceN]

I'm in 3A at Waterloo, and I haven't found the work load to be that bad. Of course it's much harder than high school, but no one ever mentions how quickly you acclimate to the increased difficulty. The jump in difficulty feels smaller because of a combination of being surrounded by peers who are going through the same challenge, and simply not realizing what you're capable of until you're pushed to do so.

Also, regardless of where you go, don't stop "fooling around with code." You would be surprised at the number of third year CS students at UW that never work on anything CS related outside of class work. The main thing most employers are looking for (or at least the one's I've talked to) is someone who stands out from the crowd of students that have only their class work, and working on something that interests you in your spare time is the best way to do that. It really doesn't matter that much what you make, just pick something that interests you and make it. Even a bunch of half-finished mediocre projects like mine were enough to get the attention of an employer as awesome as A Thinking Ape(scroll down, ignore the troll reviews), a YCombinator grad (I worked there last semester and I'm going back in January).

I've also noticed a pattern where if someone was working on side projects in their first year, they still are in their third year, and if they weren't in their first year, they still aren't in their third (with only one exception so far). So don't put it off too long or you may never start.

[Raknarg]

If I may ask, how did they get the attention of your employers? How did they discover them?

[TerranceN]

I mention them a lot on my resume.

[Raknarg]

Wow. Looks pretty good (as far as I know)

All these guys going to UW and UT make me feel a little self concious

[Tony]

TerranceN @ Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:39 pm wrote:

I mention them a lot on my resume.

If we were looking to hire interns, this resume would score an interview. Well done.