----------------------------------- Amailer Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:08 am Fakers beware: no more MS updates for you ----------------------------------- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/26/ms_updates_wga_launch/ The company also says it will replace pirated software with genuine versions - free of charge to customers who submit piracy reports and proof of purchase, and for £61 or £92 for XP Home or Professional editions respectively for customers who submit piracy reports but don't have proofs of purchase. ® Hehe who here has a pirated windows? Also, they said they will still provide secruity updates....what other updates does M$ provide? ----------------------------------- Dan Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:53 pm ----------------------------------- hehehe............i have an intresting copy of xp. But they have yet to figure me out and updates where working fine the last time i checked. I will try when i get home and see if they cought up with me or not. ----------------------------------- wtd Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:00 pm ----------------------------------- Trust Microsoft incompetence to keep the half-assed updates rolling, even for pirated copies. ----------------------------------- md Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:34 pm ----------------------------------- Oh the joys of free legit keys to all MS software! I can't wait until they send me my beta copy of longhorn (I'm never going to call it vista... ever), it should be here early next month :P ----------------------------------- Notoroge Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:02 pm ----------------------------------- Oh joy to buying legal Microsoft software. :) Honestly, if you can't afford to buy Windows, or you can't deal with their pricing scheme, why use them? ----------------------------------- person Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:11 pm ----------------------------------- Oh joy to buying legal Microsoft software. Honestly, if you can't afford to buy Windows, or you can't deal with their pricing scheme, why use them? so very true...but the thing is, M$ has the most user friendly OS out there (at least for me) if ur not gonna go into anything too complicated since most ppl in the general market arnt all that well oriented with computers, M$ is just gonna be their choice also... this is just gonna boost their sales of Longhorn/Vista ----------------------------------- [Gandalf] Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:32 pm ----------------------------------- Damn, so I was right? :( I look forward to seeing what happens... ----------------------------------- Dan Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:44 pm ----------------------------------- M$ has the most user friendly OS out there (at least for me) if ur not gonna go into anything too complicated unture, i have seen serveral distros of linux that are more easy to use then windows and are better at seting up and configuring the hardware then windows. ----------------------------------- [Gandalf] Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:57 pm ----------------------------------- The thing is, people are more used to Windows than any Linux distro, so it's easier for them I'm never going to call it vista... ever Same :). *edit* look at my amazing post count :twisted: ----------------------------------- person Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:21 pm ----------------------------------- lol....awesome post count anyways... how many ppl think its gonna screw them over? and how many off us think its gonna help them? and how many ppl think its not gonna do sh*t?? ----------------------------------- Notoroge Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:30 pm ----------------------------------- since most ppl in the general market arnt all that well oriented with computers, M$ is just gonna be their choiceEh, no sympathy for the devil. ----------------------------------- wtd Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:20 pm ----------------------------------- M$ has the most user friendly OS out there (at least for me) if ur not gonna go into anything too complicated unture, i have seen serveral distros of linux that are more easy to use then windows and are better at seting up and configuring the hardware then windows. Wow. No spelling errors. Dan must be pretty sure of this. And for good reason. The only place Windows has any "edge" over Linux is with really cheap, crappy third party peripherals. You're better off not buying these anyway. ----------------------------------- person Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:26 pm ----------------------------------- actully....5 ----------------------------------- wtd Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:57 pm ----------------------------------- actully....5 Close enough. :) ----------------------------------- Notoroge Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:40 pm ----------------------------------- Eh, rofl.Open Internet ExplorerGo to 'Tools' -- 'Manage Add-ons...'Select 'Addons that have been used by Internet Explorer' from the drop-down box in the new windowLook for 'Windows Genuine Advantage' in the list-boxHit the 'Disable' radio buttonRestart browserHappy UpdatingUpdate: Ignore all warning messages that pop-up. It doesn't matter. Just update. It'll work. ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:56 pm ----------------------------------- Eh, rofl.Open Internet ExplorerGo to 'Tools' -- 'Manage Add-ons...'Select 'Addons that have been used by Internet Explorer' from the drop-down box in the new windowLook for 'Windows Genuine Advantage' in the list-boxHit the 'Disable' radio buttonRestart browserHappy UpdatingUpdate: Ignore all warning messages that pop-up. It doesn't matter. Just update. It'll work. Won't work once IE7 actually is released. There's no longer the ability to disable it. http://www.flexbeta.net/images/ie7beta1/manage_addons.gif ----------------------------------- Notoroge Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:25 pm ----------------------------------- 'Add-ons currently loaded on Internet Explorer', wtd. Try again, but hit 'Add-ons that have been used by Internet Explorer' ;) ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:26 pm ----------------------------------- 'Add-ons currently loaded on Internet Explorer', wtd. Try again, but hit 'Add-ons that have been used by Internet Explorer' ;) I would, but Microsoft isn't letting just anyone run the IE 7 beta, and for when I use Windows, Win2k works fine, but Microsoft is restricting IE7 to XP SP2. ----------------------------------- Dan Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:41 pm ----------------------------------- I am curetly testing how windows updates intrects with my "intresting" copy of windows. I am runing windows XP corp with SP2 installed. Right now i am downloading the new updates witch in theroy should detected the fact that i aucatly made my own cd key. Affter downloading and installing them i see that windows whonts me to vaildate my windows instaltion, lets see what hapens......... Ah and they did find that the cd key was never issued my M$, smart ones they are. But will i beable to find a way to trick them? This shall remain to be seen............. i will post here again if i am able to bypass fully..... ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:46 pm ----------------------------------- To be clear: if you want to hate the Mac, go ahead... but be ready to cite very specific reasons. I do no less when I trash Windows and Microsoft. :) ----------------------------------- [Gandalf] Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:19 pm ----------------------------------- Well, good luck Dan. Just hope the M$ goons don't show up :). wtd: Alright then. My reason for not liking Macs are because I didn't like the GUI the first time I tried and it may be a while till I try again. I think it's just me though. Linux also takes some getting used to, but I have a bit more expereience there. ----------------------------------- Neo Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:37 pm ----------------------------------- Here's a how-to on bypassing WGA. I've yet to try it out myself though. ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:38 pm ----------------------------------- Here's another way to get around it. When you're at the part that asks you whether you want a Custom or Express update, put this in your address bar:javascript:void(window.g_sDisableWGACheck='all') That will disable the key check. That's right, their genius anti-piracy system involves a simple client-side javascript check. If you don't believe this works, [url=http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/28/1655234&tid=201&tid=172&tid=218]here are a bunch of happy customers ;) ----------------------------------- Neo Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:47 pm ----------------------------------- Wow, thats easy... and after all that I need 0 updates. :lol: ----------------------------------- Notoroge Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:56 pm ----------------------------------- Or you can just do what I told you, which is more practical since you don't have to type crap into your address-bar every time you want to update. :P ----------------------------------- Dan Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:40 am ----------------------------------- AH but what i am trying to do is not bypass it but make a windows install that looks 100% vaild. I used to be able to do this by generaterting real windows CD keys for corp verson witch dose not have to be vailied intill now. Tho for the short term just bypassing it will work. ----------------------------------- [Gandalf] Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:09 pm ----------------------------------- Hehe, but they will probably just keep changing and improving the update thing. Because there is no way they will keep it as JavaScript for long. Still, as always people will find ways around even those new methods. In a cost comparison, they probably figured a cheap, easy means to get people who otherwise did not know they had a pirated version to purchase outweighed trying to lock out people who knowingly run a pirated copy (i.e., people who will use this hack). Thats probably what they meant with this simple thing. ----------------------------------- wtd Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:27 pm ----------------------------------- I love it. Microsoft treats you this badly and instead of telling them where they can stick their anti-piracy measures that are nothing more than a way to harass people who legitimately bought their product... you sit there and say, "can I have some more please?" ----------------------------------- [Gandalf] Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:06 pm ----------------------------------- What I mean is that it's inevitable knowing ms. I've never expected any better from them, so to me this is just another act showing their evilness and stupidity (they will undoubtedly suffer the consequences in the end). ----------------------------------- Martin Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:09 pm ----------------------------------- Why should they care about people who pirate their software? ----------------------------------- wtd Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:18 pm ----------------------------------- Why should they care about people who pirate their software? Please! Don't play dumb for crying out loud! The fact that this is so shabbily put together shows that they have no intention of stopping piracy. They simply put it there to harass people who try to do everything legitimately. In point of fact, Microsoft loves piracy. If everyone had to pay for Windows... well, it'd be far less widespread than it is now. The fact that it's widespread means that corporations will continue to use it, and corporations do pay for Windows. ----------------------------------- Martin Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:28 pm ----------------------------------- How does this hinder the legitimate Windows user? Oh no, they have another button to click and they have to wait an extra 3 seconds whenever they update their computer. Microsoft has put this out as a warning, not with the intent to stop piracy. ----------------------------------- wtd Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:31 pm ----------------------------------- Microsoft has put this out as a warning, not with the intent to stop piracy. Exactly. It accomplishes nothing, except to further complicate life for the legitimate Windows user. ----------------------------------- Martin Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:33 pm ----------------------------------- But it doesn't complicate anything. Anyone who thinks that clicking a button once a month is too much shouldn't be using a computer in the first place. What Microsoft is doing is quite clear: they are warning the pirates that their days are numbered. ----------------------------------- wtd Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:40 pm ----------------------------------- But it doesn't complicate anything. Anyone who thinks that clicking a button once a month is too much shouldn't be using a computer in the first place. You've never spoken to 99% of the computer users out there, have you? They'll spend months wrangling with this issue. What Microsoft is doing is quite clear: they are warning the pirates that their days are numbered. By using a silly client-side Javascript hack to prevent pirated copies of Windows from getting updates? I liked the Martin who wasn't a mindless Microsoft shill... :roll: ----------------------------------- Martin Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:49 pm ----------------------------------- I don't use Windows, and there are a lot of things that I don't like about it, but I don't think that this is a legitimate complaint about it. And the warning is simply 'We know you exist. Watch your back.' ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:38 pm ----------------------------------- Martin, you're too honest for your own good :P I think its clear that this was in no way an honest measure against piracy. wtd is right, piracy is good for Microsoft. People pirate it while they can (now, when they're our age), and when you start a business and you can no longer afford to pirate (fear of software audits), are you gonna go run and learn another platform instead of pay for some liscence? Of course not -- you'll get locked in to Microsoft. Having said that, I will have to side with Martin on the usability issue. I'm not saying Linux is an inferior platform (it most certainly is not), but you can be sure that 99% of the average Joe Sixpacks out there will think it is. Your definition of "normal user", wtd, seems to clash with mine. Your idea of a normal user seems to be formed by the beginners who hang around in tech support forums. Those aren't "normal," they're showing an interest in their computer by even being there. A really "normal" user will not know, care, or want to participate on a software forum. ----------------------------------- wtd Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:13 pm ----------------------------------- Having said that, I will have to side with Martin on the usability issue. I'm not saying Linux is an inferior platform (it most certainly is not), but you can be sure that 99% of the average Joe Sixpacks out there will think it is. Your definition of "normal user", wtd, seems to clash with mine. Your idea of a normal user seems to be formed by the beginners who hang around in tech support forums. Those aren't "normal," they're showing an interest in their computer by even being there. A really "normal" user will not know, care, or want to participate on a software forum. Then Linux (or something other than Windows) is an even better option for those people. They either aren't going to do anything about all of the problems the people in tech support forums raise, or they're going to get ripped off by companies selling half-assed "solutions" to these problems in Wal-Mart. ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:01 pm ----------------------------------- Having said that, I will have to side with Martin on the usability issue. I'm not saying Linux is an inferior platform (it most certainly is not), but you can be sure that 99% of the average Joe Sixpacks out there will think it is. Your definition of "normal user", wtd, seems to clash with mine. Your idea of a normal user seems to be formed by the beginners who hang around in tech support forums. Those aren't "normal," they're showing an interest in their computer by even being there. A really "normal" user will not know, care, or want to participate on a software forum. Then Linux (or something other than Windows) is an even better option for those people. They either aren't going to do anything about all of the problems the people in tech support forums raise, or they're going to get ripped off by companies selling half-assed "solutions" to these problems in Wal-Mart. And yet, using Linux will just open up a whole new can of worms. Whether most of us realize it or not, even relatively friendly distributions require some basic knowledge. The concept of a partition, for example, in order to have it installed. Some basic knowledge of your own hardware. Let's look at some test cases. Step 1: Knowing Your Hardware I know automagic hardware detection has gotten better, but its not perfect. If you were to set up a booth in the average mall, and asked people other than 15-30 year old males what graphics driver they used, would they be able to tell you? Sure, its easy enough for us to 'sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx', but you think Aunt Betsy is going to think of that? Or know what NVidia is? How about during the installation. If there's some difficulties with the installer detecting your hardware, it will ask you some questions that we find basic. Aunt Betsy, however, will not be so amused with "What VGA-Compatible graphics adapter do you use? i810, nvidia, ati, that will be greek to them. Does Aunt Betsy have an LCD screen? What is its refresh rate? She won't know. Step 2: Installing Software Now, I realize that most modern distributions have package managers. But not all of them do. And not all package managers have a given software. And not all given softwares are of the right version. So you do some googling and you find a program that you want to install. Now, if you have Windows, you download a "Setup.exe" file, run it, press "next" a few times, and voila. Now, for Linux. There's a ".deb", an ".rpm", a ".tar.gz" ... hmm... Now everyone knows that RPM is for Red Hat right? No, wait, maybe its for Mandrake or Mandriva thing. ".deb" is easy enough to remember though! It's DEBian! Err... it could also run under Ubuntu but only if it hasn't broken compatibility -- and even for Debian will this working with the testing tree or only under stable? Oh, look, ".tar.gz" works for everyone! I'll use that one! Now what do I do? Oh, clearly, typing './configure', solving any dependency issues, tpying 'make', waiting an hour, switching to a user with superuser privileges, and then typing 'make install'. Nothing could be more intuitive, right? Steph 3: Everyday Use Aunt Betsy wants to burn a music CD for her church bake sale. Her nephew has explained to her that "K3B" is used for writing CD's, a name that is crystal-clear and almost impossible to forget or confuse. So she runs it (She's still not happy, though, with the fact that her KDE doesn't put any icons on the desktop, and she has to use a menu. You think she cares that KDE is compliant with opendesktop.org standards? She wants to save her clicks!). So she runs K3B and ... what's this? "DMA Mode is not set on device: /dev/hdd. Please enable this mode or run K3BSetup as superuser". Well, clearly, Aunt Betsy knows what do do. Obviously she must run from a shell: "sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/hdd" and then configure /etc/hdparm.conf to run her new disk paramaters at boot. Nothing could be simpler, right? Or how about if she wants to listen to a song and still hear her e-mail alerts at THE SAME TIME? She was obviously born with the engrained knowledge that the soundcard can only be used by one process at a time, and if she wants sound multitasking, she must install a sound server daemon (of which exist at least 3 that I know of). And then, clearly, she must set her media player (which one? Beep? XMMS? Kaffeine? AmaroK? Totem? Gaaah!!!) to use the "ALSA Server Output" plugin -- and if its not there, she must fire up Synaptic and install the right software and modify a few extra conf files for good measure. The Bottom Line We see computers as fascinating tools, and we really want to understand them and get the most out of them. But, most of the world doesn't. Most of the world sees them as a rather unsavoury means to an end, and a step that they would rather bypass if they could (get e-mail on your cellphone!). And you have a point, wtd, about the security -- it is one thing that is more intuitive in Linux, since it involves Aunt Betsy not doing a thing. But you know -- she's really not that interested in security. She doesn't wear a tin foil hat, won't really notice the slowdowns, can live with the occasional popup, and she probably thinks that BonzaiBuddy is a pretty neat idea. I'm not trying to sound elitist or anything, but Linux is something you have to want. If you don't feel the need for something better than the Microsoft experience, you can go without. Windows is good enough for most people's every day use. And I speak from experience -- I tried converting my mom to Linux, and she was open minded enough to give it a try. She works on a computer (as an engineer) all day at work, so she's not thick in the head. But she didn't like it. Why were there no icons? Why cant I put anything in "/usr" when its clearly short for "user"? Why can't I save my files here? Yes, she wasn't getting any popups or trojans, but she didn't really know or care about those anyway. Linux may be a great platform, but as of right now, its just not aimed at the same target audience here. ----------------------------------- wtd Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:26 pm ----------------------------------- Ok... Graphics card drivers: the defaults will work, and they'll work better in Linux than Windows. Aunt Betsy doesn't want to play games anywa, so she doesn't care about squeezing every last drop of potential out of her hardware. Burning a CD: well, in this scenario, K3B is there. What's the standard Windows solution? Oh, right, there isn't one. There are edge cases where it's not the right option, but for the majority of hardware that's out there now, and most distributions these days, it's friendlier than Windows. Of course, that isn't necessarily a ringing endorsement. Of course there's room for improvement. ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:34 pm ----------------------------------- Ok... Graphics card drivers: the defaults will work, and they'll work better in Linux than Windows. Aunt Betsy doesn't want to play games anywa, so she doesn't care about squeezing every last drop of potential out of her hardware. I'm guessing that you're running some pretty mainstream hardware, then, because for many people (like me) who are running older, more 'exotic' things, many times there will be no auto-detect and it will present you with a menu of drivers to choose from. Its sort of hit-or-miss if you have no idea (my first time installing Linux, for example, I did not make the connection between "Intel integrated graphics adapter" in lspci and "i810" in the driver menu), and if you get it wrong you either have to run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg11' or edit the xorg.conf file manually, neither of which is at all intuitive for a first-timer. And heaven forbid you should not know your exact refresh rate -- that will either end you up stuck in 800x600 resolution (if you're lucky), or with a completely borked image when trying to startx. Burning a CD: well, in this scenario, K3B is there. What's the standard Windows solution? Oh, right, there isn't one. Well, I havent' installed Windows in a while, but I'm pretty sure that there is. You can right-click on things and there should be a "Write to Disc" context menu option there. My memory of WinXP is sketchy at best, but I distinctly remember being able to burn files from within Windows Explorer, and I certainly never installed any software to do that. (On the reverse side, Nautilus can do this too. Point.) There are edge cases where it's not the right option, but for the majority of hardware that's out there now, and most distributions these days, it's friendlier than Windows. Of course, that isn't necessarily a ringing endorsement. Of course there's room for improvement. Agreed, of course :) Again, I love Linux and I'm not looking back or anything. But from several failed attempts to convert others, this is the sort of resignation I've arrived at. ----------------------------------- wtd Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:51 pm ----------------------------------- There are edge cases where it's not the right option, but for the majority of hardware that's out there now, and most distributions these days, it's friendlier than Windows. Of course, that isn't necessarily a ringing endorsement. Of course there's room for improvement. Agreed, of course :) Again, I love Linux and I'm not looking back or anything. But from several failed attempts to convert others, this is the sort of resignation I've arrived at. Your resignation is exactly the wrong response. Linux isn't perfect. Well, guess what... nothing is. The only reason Windows is used by anyone is that it's the first thing forced on most new computer buyers. So let's say you try to "convert" 10 friends. Let's say Linux isn't perfect, and only 2 of them are convinced. That's better than zero. Linux is going to be better in a year's time. Those you've converted will now contribute to making more people curious, and if they try to convert 10 people, maybe 3 people will keep it. That's 6 people. It may seem pointless, but it's not. ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:38 pm ----------------------------------- Your resignation is exactly the wrong response. Linux isn't perfect. Well, guess what... nothing is. The only reason Windows is used by anyone is that it's the first thing forced on most new computer buyers. So let's say you try to "convert" 10 friends. Let's say Linux isn't perfect, and only 2 of them are convinced. That's better than zero. Linux is going to be better in a year's time. Those you've converted will now contribute to making more people curious, and if they try to convert 10 people, maybe 3 people will keep it. That's 6 people. It may seem pointless, but it's not. Perhaps "resignation" was the wrong word. See, I advocate Linux, I have helped countless people get it installed, and have distributed countless CD's. What I've come to realize, though, is that the decision has to be sort of a mutual agreement that they want a better system. It's not something to push on people. I certainly haven't given up on promoting Linux, but I am now far more selective about who I "preach" to. People like my mom are the wrong people. People in my comp sci class are the right people. Again, its not about "skill" or anything, its about interest. Its sort of like a religion. Nobody wants to have some pushy guy trying to convert them every chance they get. But there's nothing wrong with offering your spiritual point of view, or whatever, to people when they need it. You want to try Linux? Sounds interesting? Fine, here's what I can do. But I'm not going to try to "convert" (as you put it), all of my friends simply because of the chance that 2 out of ten will stick with it. ----------------------------------- wtd Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:12 am ----------------------------------- Of course, I did put "convert" in quotes since I try not to be too pushy about it. However, I also don't go out of my way to help people work around the flaws in Windows and other Microsoft software. Instead I'll suggest a way open source software can help them. ----------------------------------- apomb Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:43 am ----------------------------------- for me ... as a very interested Linux newb, and a hardware junky, i found it exciting when i got my first distro ... dropped it in and found that i had to work for a very agonizing month just to figure out that my geforce 6600GT wouldnt work with the default nv driver ... but only with the vesa driver. To an undetermined (windows) user... that would have stopped them in thier tracks. The only reason i kept at it was because i wanted so badly to get away from the microsoft broohaha. I reformatted 11 times before i realised the problem was just this simple driver issue. not many "normal" computer users are willing to do this. Although, like you both, i love linux, but there are just too many little things that have to be done for it to work smoothly (i do not mean instability, just normal programs and stuff) for the average user. have i mentioned that i now have both an AMD64 version and intel version of linux in my house. ----------------------------------- Notoroge Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:27 am ----------------------------------- So, uh, anyone wanna cyber? ----------------------------------- apomb Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:33 am ----------------------------------- I dont think coutsos would appreciate that comment very much :wink: ----------------------------------- Mazer Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:11 pm ----------------------------------- I dont think coutsos would appreciate that comment very much :wink: I don't see how it applies to me, except that I think it's funny. But... damn it! Don't drag me into your offtopic-ness! ----------------------------------- md Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:58 am ----------------------------------- of course with linux you didn't need to reformat, you just needed to recompile your kernel with the apropriate drivers (or if it was for X, just change the config file). See once you've been using windows for so long recompiling seems like the first thing to do when in fact it's the last with most other operating systems. I'm surprised that it took you so long to figure it out too... I'd have guessed that there would be others who had the same problem and posted their solutions on the net... google has saved me many many hours of frustration when trying to solve problems. ----------------------------------- MihaiG Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:46 pm ----------------------------------- im running a RAEDON 9550 :-D i gotit for $100 flat :P ----------------------------------- [Gandalf] Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:13 pm ----------------------------------- Good job... good job... Acutally, CompWiz, I was going to ask you what kind of computer do you have? It seems to be really similar to mine, A64, 6600GT... ----------------------------------- apomb Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:15 pm ----------------------------------- A64 3000+,GeForce 6600GT, Maxtor Diamondmax 9 (80 GB)+(120 GB) ... DFI LANPARTY Mobo Nforce3 250GB, 1.5 Gig Ram DDR400 ... NEC DVD burner dual layer ... perty much low end, fast tho ----------------------------------- Martin Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:40 pm ----------------------------------- When did an Athlon 64 and an nVidia 6600GT become low end? That computer must still cost over $1000 ----------------------------------- Mazer Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:57 pm ----------------------------------- I still wouldn't consider my AthlonXP 2900+ and FX5200 system low end, regardless of how crappy the card is seen as. ----------------------------------- wtd Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:16 pm ----------------------------------- We're getting old. Anybody wanna debug COBOL code for fun? ----------------------------------- md Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:41 pm ----------------------------------- We're getting old. Anybody wanna debug COBOL code for fun? How bout we don't and say we didn't... I think that's about as much fun as oh shooting my toes off one by one... ----------------------------------- apomb Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:44 am ----------------------------------- When did an Athlon 64 and an nVidia 6600GT become low end? That computer must still cost over $1000 I just thought everyone would have been like "well, high end is geforce 7800, middle is now radeon x800..." and athlon 64 3000+ ... 2Ghz, i guess runs like a P4 3Ghz ish there are better tho. i guess im just a perfectionist when it comes to things like that. oh and the price i payed for all the parts together totalled about 1100, just whats in the case ... no monitor or speakers(already had some of both). sooo, come to think of it ... yah, i should be happy with what i have. ----------------------------------- wtd Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:08 am ----------------------------------- athlon 64 3000+ ... 2Ghz, i guess runs like a P4 3Ghz ish there are better tho. For what it's worth, AMD's performance ratings are in comparison to a 1GHz AMD "Thunderbird" Athlon. ----------------------------------- Notoroge Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:52 pm ----------------------------------- I don't know why people give Intel so much heat. Their new CPUs are actually quite decent. :? ----------------------------------- wtd Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:52 pm ----------------------------------- I don't know why people give Intel so much heat. Because their processors have given people so much heat? ----------------------------------- Martin Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:07 am ----------------------------------- Badum-cha! ----------------------------------- Notoroge Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:37 am ----------------------------------- Eh, I like Intel processors. They may not be as 'elite' when it comes to overclocking. They are still good. And I don't mind them either way. ----------------------------------- md Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:38 pm ----------------------------------- My P4 may not be quite as fast as a AMD64, nor does it run 64 bit apps, but thanks to hyperthreading my system is much more responsive when running gaim, gedit, vlc, gkrellm, gnome, and all of the other ~105 processes that are running on my computer all the time. Speaking of processes... I think I'm liking linux's efficiency... linux has 105 processes, and about that many threads, whereas windows was running 50 processes, but ~450 threads. Plus I'm only using %12 of my memory instead of the %45-%55 that windows hogs... ----------------------------------- bugzpodder Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:23 pm ----------------------------------- after using unix for a year at waterloo and using debian at work for 4 months now, i must say that linux scares the shit out of me... it even crashed on me (but it was my fault, the app was using up all of the 2GB memory and switching to swaps). only thing positive about it is that i could usually leave my machine on for a few weeks without any problems (never tried this in windows, but i assume system will get cranky after a day or two) and that the vim editor is better than notepad. the only reason i leave the computer on is that building my baseline takes 4 hours and had to be done at night... and i totally dont get the meaning of dpkr sudo blah... i like it much better if its in english and i can click stuff... ----------------------------------- rizzix Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:17 am ----------------------------------- My P4 may not be quite as fast as a AMD64, nor does it run 64 bit apps, but thanks to hyperthreading my system is much more responsive when running gaim, gedit, vlc, gkrellm, gnome, and all of the other ~105 processes that are running on my computer all the time. ha.. i've read elsewhere, it makes no difference, but only in some apps.. most of the time it infact slows things down.. :? Speaking of processes... I think I'm liking linux's efficiency... linux has 105 processes, and about that many threads, whereas windows was running 50 processes, but ~450 threads. Plus I'm only using %12 of my memory instead of the %45-%55 that windows hogs...lol you should see my OSX on G4 Cube.. It's an old mac.. yet soo damn stable.. not funny! (new OS though, meh!) ----------------------------------- md Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:12 am ----------------------------------- My P4 may not be quite as fast as a AMD64, nor does it run 64 bit apps, but thanks to hyperthreading my system is much more responsive when running gaim, gedit, vlc, gkrellm, gnome, and all of the other ~105 processes that are running on my computer all the time. ha.. i've read elsewhere, it makes no difference, but only in some apps.. most of the time it infact slows things down.. :? Well I can't say that the performance increase isn't also in part to a doubling in processor speed, and an additional 512mb of ram; but I can say that I enjoyed the additional stability HT provided in windows where one process could only run on one of hte virtual processors at once (even if it was threaded); which saved me from quite a few nasty program hangs ----------------------------------- Notoroge Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:02 pm ----------------------------------- Back on topic, if you want to find out how to not worry about having a fake key detected, two hints: eMule, and "Microsoft 4in1" Oh, and once you get it, one more hint: The number 64 is key for the range of options given. I've said enough. :shock: ----------------------------------- md Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:00 am ----------------------------------- 'Course you can also just use wine on linux; apparently it passes the test without any hacks... ----------------------------------- Drakain Zeil Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:17 pm so much for wga ----------------------------------- http://www.dvd-recordable.org/Article2139.phtml