----------------------------------- wtd Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:29 pm Ubuntu Linux ----------------------------------- I was previously impressed by Fedora Core 2, but this one's even better, plus there's a LiveCD version for testing purposes. http://www.ubuntulinux.org ----------------------------------- templest Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:01 pm ----------------------------------- News from the 22nd Century (Slashdot.org): "Today IT Professionals are in a state of panic. Since the huge leap that Linux took into the mainstream market by 'Atakori Linux' from the ancient Gods of CompSci at 'ximbio -labs', companies have run out of names to call any new linux releases coming out (there are currently 13513016400954791094091470914907140910960946 distributions floating around). This raises the question, 'How will we name our distros now?'. This issue has even been taken into concideration by the WNCSPA (World National Computer Science Programmers Association), and a response is expected later this week. More on the story as it unfolds." ... Or, something like that. EDIT: It's a nice gesture that they actually mail-out copies of their distro in snail-mail. At first I thought they'd e-mail me the link, but wow. It's little things like this that really get a person worked-up about a distro. Hell, if I like it I might just buy it, just to cover the effort they spent in sending me the free copies. :D RE-EDIT: Holy shit! My download was at: "28750 KB/s" in FireFox! OMGWTFBBQH4X! Goddamnit! I was so mesmerized I totaly didn't think of taking a screenshot in time. Holy f ûck. It download 240 MBs before it stop spiking though. OMFG, I have one FAT-A SS pipe running through my house. Goddamn! If I only knew how to uncap it. Wow, this was shocking. :D :D :D Whoah. I still can't believe it. That's almost 30 MB/s!!! :D :D :D :D :D :twisted: ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:14 pm ----------------------------------- Heh. Ubuntu actually does have a meaning. It's Zulu and has a deep profound meaning about the nature of community. ----------------------------------- templest Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:28 pm ----------------------------------- Is my sarcasm _that_ complicated to understand? :roll: ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:39 pm ----------------------------------- Sorry about that. ----------------------------------- templest Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:05 am ----------------------------------- Hm, I need some more RAM. But I dumped all my cash on teh laptop so I have to make due (512). Either-way, it's good enough of performance to make a good analysis of the distro. (Remember, I'm running this in VMWare). First issue I ran into: "sudo". Annoying as hell. I don't really get what the point of it all is. Just give me root access and I'll be happy. Since I need to completely unload Xorg in order to install VMWare-Tools, and since there isn't a way (or option) in GDM to kick you into a terminal-login, I had to remove it. Yes, graphical logins are fine and dandy, but they get extreamly annoying after a while; I wouldn't even mind GDM as much if it only gave me the option to boot into a terminal. I personally am not that big of a fan of GNOME, in fact, I pretty much remove 2/4 of the files that Ubuntu installed to begin with. It doesn't even give you the advanced option to select your installation packages (I'm sure there's an "Expert Install" I might have missed in haste). After installing VMWare-Tools (and a quick ask-around in their IRC Tech-Support channel), I managed to get things running smoothly. Not bad of a distro. The only other major problem I have, is that it installs such inane things as Gaim, OO.org, yet manages to _not_ install: gcc, kernel-headers / sources, make, and a slew of other _required_ apps that are essential to any regular linux setup. Apt-Get fixes that though, but still, they should be there to begin with. ----------------------------------- wtd Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:25 am ----------------------------------- I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm currently evaluating it from the perspective of getting users who just need basic internet and office capabilities off of Windows. :) The LiveCD in particular is going to be great for getting past the fear a lot of people have of screwing up their computer. ----------------------------------- JHanson90 Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:35 pm Re: Ubuntu Linux ----------------------------------- I was previously impressed by Fedora Core 2, but this one's even better, plus there's a LiveCD version for testing purposes. http://www.ubuntulinux.org I don't really get this idea of trying different distributions of Linux to find big differences. I have SuSE, and it seems like it comes with everything that I need. What else is out there? What's the difference between some of the most popular ones, and some not-so-popular but powerful ones? I chose to ask this here because if you go to a big Linux forum like [url=http://www.justlinux.com/]justlinux.com, you might find that most are very biased for one single distro. Check peoples' signatures. :) ----------------------------------- wtd Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:43 am Re: Ubuntu Linux ----------------------------------- I was previously impressed by Fedora Core 2, but this one's even better, plus there's a LiveCD version for testing purposes. http://www.ubuntulinux.org I don't really get this idea of trying different distributions of Linux to find big differences. I have SuSE, and it seems like it comes with everything that I need. What else is out there? What's the difference between some of the most popular ones, and some not-so-popular but powerful ones? Well, it's really easy to find a geek-oriented distro. My goal for a while now has been to find a really polished distro that can be "sold" to non-geeks. Ubuntu is nice for at least a few reasons. It's based on Debian, which is great for stability, and package management is much better than on RPM-based distros. It has a LiveCD. This makes it a lot easier to convince people to try it. It comes on a single CD. It's a lot easier to convince people that something is simple if it doesn't come on three or four CDs. It uses a nicely integrated Gnome desktop. If KDE tries to mimic Windows interface, Gnome tries to mimic the Classic MacOS interface. Security is high. Very few services are running by default. It also doesn't give root access by default. You can make administrative changes, but you don't have to do it as root. I think Ubuntu might be pretty close to an ideal desktop Linux workstation. ----------------------------------- templest Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:36 am ----------------------------------- Indeed. You want a distro that you can install entirely from source _without_ any installation procedure, in other words, you load a LiveCD and do _everything_ manually? You get top notch performance. No other distro in the world will run as fast, but you'll have to read a ~200 page manual and it'll probably take two - three days to install, get Gentoo. Not obsessed about performance, but want a WindowsXP-Easy install? Get Fedora, or Ubuntu. They perform well, non-the-less. But you won't have to lose sleep and destroy your social life in order to squeeze a little more juice out of your box. :D ----------------------------------- wtd Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:21 pm ----------------------------------- The only caveat I would note is that Ubuntu's install is still text-only. It's not hard to use, just somewhat intimidating to look at. One thing Fedora does have going for it is a first-rate graphical installer. ----------------------------------- templest Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:21 pm ----------------------------------- The only caveat I would note is that Ubuntu's install is still text-only. It's not hard to use, just somewhat intimidating to look at. One thing Fedora does have going for it is a first-rate graphical installer. All you have to do throughout the entire Ubuntu install is hit the 'Enter' key. Done. ----------------------------------- wtd Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:51 pm ----------------------------------- The only caveat I would note is that Ubuntu's install is still text-only. It's not hard to use, just somewhat intimidating to look at. One thing Fedora does have going for it is a first-rate graphical installer. All you have to do throughout the entire Ubuntu install is hit the 'Enter' key. Done. Pretty much. Selecting your location if you're in Canada means a little more effort. ;) ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:57 pm ----------------------------------- Hehe... I placed my order for 10 CD's. I'm curious as to whether they'll ever actually arrive. If they do, you can be sure I'm going to start campaigning LInux to all my Windows friends :) The true spirit of Opensource! :D ----------------------------------- templest Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:23 pm ----------------------------------- Hehe... I placed my order for 10 CD's. I'm curious as to whether they'll ever actually arrive. If they do, you can be sure I'm going to start campaigning LInux to all my Windows friends :) The true spirit of Opensource! :D They will. I'm willing to bet in an ugly box put into some paper-sleeves. If they come individually in actual boxes. I'd be like: "wtf? No... this is too much." :? ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:06 pm ----------------------------------- Hehe... I placed my order for 10 CD's. I'm curious as to whether they'll ever actually arrive. If they do, you can be sure I'm going to start campaigning LInux to all my Windows friends :) The true spirit of Opensource! :D They will. I'm willing to bet in an ugly box put into some paper-sleeves. If they come individually in actual boxes. I'd be like: "wtf? No... this is too much." :? Oh, stop nitpicking :P They're giving you FREE software on FREE cd's and mailing them to you FREE of shipping and handling-- does it really matter if they come in pretty little cases? ^ ^: Personally I'm amazed at the level of generosity displayed so far! ----------------------------------- templest Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:15 pm ----------------------------------- Hehe... I placed my order for 10 CD's. I'm curious as to whether they'll ever actually arrive. If they do, you can be sure I'm going to start campaigning LInux to all my Windows friends :) The true spirit of Opensource! :D They will. I'm willing to bet in an ugly box put into some paper-sleeves. If they come individually in actual boxes. I'd be like: "wtf? No... this is too much." :? Oh, stop nitpicking :P They're giving you FREE software on FREE cd's and mailing them to you FREE of shipping and handling-- does it really matter if they come in pretty little cases? ^ ^: Personally I'm amazed at the level of generosity displayed so far! No shit? Read the fcuking post. I said, I'm willing to be they'd come in an ugly box sealed in paper-sleeves. Because If they'd come individually in pretty boxes, I would consider it _way_ too much effort. ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:41 pm ----------------------------------- Ah, I guess I got the sarcasm I wrong. I thought the "I'd be like: "wtf? No... this is too much." :? part was sarcastic and the rest was serious. When I guess it was the other way around. ^ ^; Hard to tell from text. My bad :oops: ----------------------------------- wtd Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:32 am ----------------------------------- Of course, it wouldn't be too much work at all. In business, you don't want to do things half-assed. If you're going to do something, do it well and project a positive image of your company. If you can't do it well, then don't bother doing it at all and focus on something you can do well. ----------------------------------- templest Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:50 am ----------------------------------- Of course, it wouldn't be too much work at all. In business, you don't want to do things half-assed. If you're going to do something, do it well and project a positive image of your company. If you can't do it well, then don't bother doing it at all and focus on something you can do well. Nooooooooh shit, Did you read my other post? If they did put that much effort into it, I would concider it so crazy I'd buy a copy, or two, just to pay them back for the effort. :P ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:09 pm ----------------------------------- Well, templest, eat your words ;) I just got my CD's today and they are excellently packaged. Read my entry at http://blog.thegoban.com for a full rant on the Ubuntu Pressed CD's! ----------------------------------- apomb Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:57 am ----------------------------------- I freakin ordered mine almost a month and a half ago now and i still havent recieved them ... how long should it take??? ----------------------------------- josh Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:19 pm ----------------------------------- Over the weekend (when the site was down) I installed it on this old PC in my house. The first time I ever installed linux, and let me tell you Ubuntu made it so easy. I reallly like it so far (although It is kinda slow on the old system) but I still don't know much about it (I don't know UNIX and I am still discovering the whole file structure and the way it works) So far I like it alot (especially the fun games that come with it) ----------------------------------- Cervantes Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:28 pm ----------------------------------- I freakin ordered mine almost a month and a half ago now and i still havent recieved them ... how long should it take??? I must be closing on two months about now... ----------------------------------- apomb Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:44 am ----------------------------------- k, so they should be ariving soon is what youre saying??? :think: hikaru's posts were exactly 2 months apart ... right so thats a good sign ----------------------------------- Cervantes Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:24 am ----------------------------------- No, I haven't got mine yet. Hopefully, I'll get them before the end of the holidays. :pray: ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:58 pm ----------------------------------- Here's a thought... buy a couple blank discs and hunt down a friend with broadband and a CD burner. :) ----------------------------------- josh Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:51 pm ----------------------------------- Or you could start downloading it using Bittorent (so you can pause the download) just in case it is another 2 months ;) ----------------------------------- Cervantes Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:45 pm ----------------------------------- Speak of the devil, it came!! What's more, it was probably in my mailbox when I wrote that last message. :D ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:07 pm ----------------------------------- Speak of the devil, it came!! What's more, it was probably in my mailbox when I wrote that last message. :D w00t! Finally! Cervantes, get back on IRC right now! :) If you run into any problems, me and wtd can help you out, and there's a bit of optimization to do once the install is complete. ^ ^ ----------------------------------- josh Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:41 pm ----------------------------------- if by optimization you mean java, updates, and flash, it is really easy to do. The ubuntuforums.org site is really good for stuff like that. However when you install it, I had a problem where I set my location to Canada, and then when I tried to log on with the username and password I had set, it did not work. I had to re-install and set my location to the US (someone on the ubuntu forums had the same problem), and it worked. Also, how long did it take for you to install it. I am not sure if it was because I was on an old PC but it tooke me like 1.5-2 hours to get the updates and additoinal software (the phase during the installation) and istall them all. Just wondering if any one knows where I go to set my location back to Canada now that it works? ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:58 pm ----------------------------------- if by optimization you mean java, updates, and flash, it is really easy to do. The ubuntuforums.org site is really good for stuff like that. However when you install it, I had a problem where I set my location to Canada, and then when I tried to log on with the username and password I had set, it did not work. I had to re-install and set my location to the US (someone on the ubuntu forums had the same problem), and it worked. Also, how long did it take for you to install it. I am not sure if it was because I was on an old PC but it tooke me like 1.5-2 hours to get the updates and additoinal software (the phase during the installation) and istall them all. Just wondering if any one knows where I go to set my location back to Canada now that it works? When I say optimization, I don't just mean java and flash. I also mean stuff like getting your NVidia/ATI card working, upgrading to a 686 processor (if neccesary), getting media codecs, etc. Some of the processes (particularly the former) can be very involving and prone to problems, and not something that should be attempted alone if it's your first time. ^ ^ 1.5-2 hours is perfectly normal for a net install. Remember, it has to download about 700 megs worth of software, and then install, etc :) No idea about your location bug... it's the strangest thing o_O I'm in Canada, and I had no problems at all. ----------------------------------- josh Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:09 pm ----------------------------------- I know, I would have had no idea what was going on if I had not read that post on the ubuntu forums ----------------------------------- Cervantes Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:48 am ----------------------------------- Wake up, Hikaru!! It's morning! :D Installation is complete. I have to say I found the installation process to be very painless. There were a few things I was unsure about, but I think I picked the right choices. :wink: Actually, I didn't see anything about that MBR you were talking about, Hikaru. Hopefully that's not a bad thing. The main question I have about this is how to get my two hard drives visible in both operating systems. Right now, I've got the master running Windows ME (ugh) and the slave running Ubuntu. In Windows, I can't see the slave drive anywhere. In Ubuntu, I can't see find Master drive. This is really important because if I am to use linux regularly and for every day work, I need all my files accessable from within Ubuntu. Any ideas? rhystic: I think the entire install process took me from 10 until 12, though for a good portion of that time I was working my way through the install setup. ----------------------------------- Andy Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:38 am ----------------------------------- are u sure the bios is configured to recognize both drives? ----------------------------------- Cervantes Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:33 am ----------------------------------- Yep. When I had the windows only install, both drives were recognized. I imagine the problem is that the master drive is partitioned as fat32 and the slave as ext3 (most of it, anyhow). Actually, if this will work, where do I find the master drive in Linux? ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:48 am ----------------------------------- Try this in the command prompt: cd /dev && mount hda0 mount hda1 If that doesn't work, type simply mount and paste the output here. ----------------------------------- Andy Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:50 am ----------------------------------- Oooo rite... hmm actualy i dunno, i think its fine if u have both drive partitioned to be differently... but try to use partition magic to change both partitions in to FAT32 ----------------------------------- Cervantes Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:25 pm ----------------------------------- Changing both partitions into FAT32? Wouldn't that... not be too healthy for linux operation? Actually, System Information in Windows can find the slave drive, as well as tell me about the size of the partitions on it. And in Linux, Device Manager can find the Master Drive, and tell me some stuff about it. But I can't use them! :x Thanks, Hikaru. I'll try that out soon. :) EDIT: It didn't work. :? root@ubuntu: /dev #mount /dev/hdb1 on / type ext3 (rw,errors=remount-ro) sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw) devpts on /dev/pts type devpts(rw,gid=5,mode=620) tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw) usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw) Or, when I tried what you first suggested: root@ubuntu: /dev # cd /dev && mount hda0 mount: can't find hda0 in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab I can see a little icon that says hda0 in the /dev folder (mind you, I can also see hda1, hda2, etc. as well as hdb0, hdb1 ... and a bunch of other things like that). I don't know why it's searching in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab when hda0 seems to be in /dev. EDIT2 Do I have to add something to /etc/fstab? ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:10 pm ----------------------------------- Hm... it's been years since I've had Linux and Windows on the same machine, so my knowledge in this area is a bit sketchy :( However, Ubuntu is known for it's excellent support system. If you go to irc.freenode.net and join #ubuntu and ask there, you'll get an instant response. Alternatively, try posting about it at http://ubuntuforums.org . Or, best of all, check their VERY comprehensive Wiki about Ubuntu support issues at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/ . In the meantime, I'll do some research. I promise I'll get this thing working for you ^ ^ ----------------------------------- Cervantes Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:55 am ----------------------------------- :notworthy: Thanks Hikaru! Actually, I've been searching around the ubuntu forums and have read a few of those wiki's, though most of my searching there has been regarding getting my modem working. (Driver problems, I suspect. Rebooting my machine just to try something I learned on the internet is really annoying!) Thanks for the irc.freenode.net, I didn't know that's what the server was. ----------------------------------- Cervantes Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:28 pm ----------------------------------- EDIT2 Do I have to add something to /etc/fstab? Wow, turns out I was right. With help from the irc channel, I discovered that I must change /etc/fstab in the following manner: As the root user (it's read only for all other users), add the following line: /dev/hda1 /mnt/dos (could use any place though) auto defaults 0 2 then, in the terminal: mount /dev/hda1 I'm a little curious as to why it's hda1 and not hda0 though. I'm still confused about how linux names drives. Anyways, w00t! Now, I must get dial-up networking operational. ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:16 pm ----------------------------------- w00t!! Go Cervantes :) OK, for Dial-up, try this: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DialupModemHowto/view?searchterm=dial-up ----------------------------------- Cervantes Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:40 pm ----------------------------------- It seems that I've got a winmodem. Blast. What's more, the chipset is conexant. As far as I can tell, the only place to download linux drivers for conexant modems is www.linuxant.com. Linuxant allows free download of the drivers, but data flow is limited to 14.4kbps. That's not cool. To get a full 56kbps data flow, you have to pay $15 USD, which I'm not about to do. If anyone knows another place to download linux drivers for conexant style modems, I'd greatly appreciate it :) The other option I have is try to set up my dad's old external US Robotics 56K modem, which I believe is not a winmodem, though I can't be sure until I plug it in and test it out. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance, -Cervantes ----------------------------------- josh Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:05 am ----------------------------------- that does ont seem to be in the Linux spririt of making the software free. If it is for linux, is that even allowed under the GNU ( I don't know much about the GNU, but from what I have heard that seems a little iffy) ----------------------------------- Cervantes Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:18 am ----------------------------------- I don't think it is, though they've got a little other option, using the external US Robotics modem, is out: I can't even plug it into my computer! :lol: Maybe I'll try some old internal modems. Though, they might not be PCI... ----------------------------------- Cervantes Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:02 pm ----------------------------------- Well, I cheked out Summit Direct, as well as two other smaller computer stores, for hardware modems. The two that did have hardware modems (Summit Direct being one of them) both showed me the AOpen FM56-PX. At Summit Direct, it's $35. To me, that's a good chunk of money, but I think it's worth it. If I can't get connected to the internet on Linux, I'm not going to use linux. And I want to use linux! :) ----------------------------------- Cervantes Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:16 pm ----------------------------------- I haven't got the modem yet. After searching around the [url=http://www.winehq.com/]WineHQ site for a bit, I realized that the way to get WINE working is to download it from within Linux. It's not like there's an installer file, or anything along those lines, that I could download in Windows and then access from within Linux. I want to know which programs will work within Linux and which will not, preferably before spending money on that modem. Is there any way to get WINE working without downloading it from within Linux? -Cervantes ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:21 pm ----------------------------------- I haven't got the modem yet. After searching around the I'm not quite sure what you mean by "download it from within Linux." Certainly, many distribution repositories will contain binaries for WINE, but those are nothing more than pre-compiled versions of the WINE source code that is available for easy download. You CAN download the WINE source code from Windows, and then transfer it over to a Linux machine through a LAN or whatever, and compile it there. You don't *have* to get it from the repository. As for which programs will work in WINE, not that many. Ask for some examples and I'll let you know. Most notably, almost all games work with Cedega (a WINE offshoot), and WINE itself will work with Microsoft Office, Macromedia Studio, Photoshop 7.0, and others. ----------------------------------- Cervantes Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:36 am ----------------------------------- http://www.winehq.com/site/download-deb I don't see any link to download it, only stuff to do within Linux. Cedega, eh? Arrgh, it's commercial. ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:06 pm ----------------------------------- If you scroll down past the "Linux Binary" category on the download page ( http://www.winehq.com/site/download ) you'll see a heading called "Wine Source Downloads. That's what you want. Here it is directly: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6241&package_id=77449 Then just download the source and compile it. As for Cedega... I may... just MAY... have "obtained" a copy of it that you can use. Get me on IRC to reveal to you whether "MAY" is a yes or no, k? :wink: :oops: ----------------------------------- Cervantes Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:17 pm ----------------------------------- Golly, Hikaru, you rock. :D ----------------------------------- Cervantes Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:08 am ----------------------------------- Okay, I tried installing WINE (using the file I downloaded in Windows), but I failed. :cry: I extracted the file (to /home/geoff/WINE -- I really don't know what the various folders are used for, so I just used mine) then read through the first little bit of the README. It said to, in the terminal, run ./tools/wineinstall (and I would be in /home/geoff/WINE/wine-20050111 when I type that command). So I open up the root terminal, do it, and it says something like "You are running this in the root terminal. This is not recommended. Aborting." Damn. So I try it in the user terminal (geoff). I try to cd to /home/geoff/WINE but I can't, access is denied. And I couldn't change the security settings of the folder because I wasn't logged in as root. Why I didn't think to log in as root and change the security settings the log back in as geoff is beyond me, but nevertheless I didn't. Anyways, I'm going to try that soon. I suppose the whole purpose of this post is ask: what are the limits of the user, geoff. I know the root password, so I can open a root terminal. But I can't modify security settings when I'm logged in as geoff. Also, I was under the impression (before I installed Ubuntu) that there was no root user, that the user you created when installing Ubuntu would be, for all intents and purposes, the root user. Yet that's not the case. :think: :eh: -Cervantes ----------------------------------- Hikaru79 Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:43 pm ----------------------------------- What you heard is correct. do NOT use the root terminal. use the regular console, but whenever you need to do something as root, type 'sudo' before the command (sudo = super user do). For example, sudo chmod 777 home/geoff/WINE/ If you use sudo with everything, you should never have to touch root terminal or use the root user. This is actually a safer more secure way (apparently) because too many people do too many things as root and end up regretting it.