----------------------------------- Genesis Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:17 pm Computer Science Programs ----------------------------------- Well, being in gr. 12, I gotta apply to some universities eventually. And although almost all of them offer computer science, and quite a few offer software as well as computer engineering, does anyone know if there's any programs that might at least be worth looking into, OTHER than at Waterloo. Or should I just not bother and stick with only Waterloo? BTW, how is computer science at Waterloo? For those of you that are there. And tony, what's mechatronics engineering like? That sounds pretty fun too. ----------------------------------- bugzpodder Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:18 pm ----------------------------------- if you cant do math, dont goto waterloo. otherwise goto waterloo ----------------------------------- Genesis Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:20 pm ----------------------------------- I can do math quite well. :D ----------------------------------- Tony Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:36 pm Re: Computer Science Programs ----------------------------------- And tony, what's mechatronics engineering like? That sounds pretty fun too. oh, it is :wink: In a nutshell, mechatronics is mechanical engineering++ :lol: We get to build and program robots. Such as this project I'm working on right now 8) ----------------------------------- Genesis Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:09 pm ----------------------------------- We get to build and program robots. Such as this project I'm working on right now Cool That's awesome. Is that what the program is based on pretty much? Just designing/programming/building robots, or robotically controlled systems? ----------------------------------- Martin Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:20 pm ----------------------------------- Computer science at waterloo is bitchy. This is the website that has all of the assignments on it: http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~cs134/ It's easy enough, but they are pretty picky about format. Some of the upper year courses are interesting though apparently. Second year you get to make your own compiler. Other projects include real time debugging, graphics, and OS's (yes, you end up making an OS). Apparently they won't let anyone take all three of them in the same semester. So yeah, so far so good. Math is a lot more fun though, the Putnam training is...intense. If you go to Waterloo, I definately recommend taking MATH 145/147 instead of the regular stream math. I have a lot more fun in it. First year is in Java or Scheme (depending on what CS course you choose). Upper year courses are taught in C++, Java, PASCAL, Not quite C. Also, the focus is on UNIX, so if you get the chance, I definately recommend installing linux and getting used to using a UNIX environment. Although it is by no means a prerequisite, it will make your first couple of weeks much less stressful. The other thing is, if you are going to Waterloo, you HAVE TO take ECON 101. There is no excuse whatsoever not to; it is by far the most amazing class that I have. The prof, Larry Smith, is, in my opinion and in the general opinion of the university, the best professor in the school. Expect a lot of work from CS at waterloo. You will probably only have ~15 hours of class, but the homework is fairly heavy. Don't worry though, there is plenty of spare time to be found. Another recommendation is, that when applying to rez, if you want to get into MKV (the newest rez), put down that you have some special diatary need, and you will get in. Otherwise, forget it. So yeah, it's awesome here. The people here are very focused on school. Some of the classes get large (40 people in my math classes) but the profs always make time if you want to talk to them one on one. Plus the benefit of being in CS is that all of your classes will be in the Math and Computer Science building, so 30 second walks between classes. ----------------------------------- templest Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:25 pm Re: Computer Science Programs ----------------------------------- And tony, what's mechatronics engineering like? That sounds pretty fun too. oh, it is :wink: In a nutshell, mechatronics is mechanical engineering++ :lol: We get to build and program robots. Such as this project I'm working on right now 8) That's what I'm getting into... that is, of course if I don't decide to get into law. :? I've been debating about this one for quite sometime: Law or CompSci. :think: I'm good at both is the issue. All my Enlish/Law/Politics teachers love my work, yet I'm a shoe-in for Waterloo (note: 96 Avg in all math classes). :| ----------------------------------- Tony Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:39 pm ----------------------------------- Is that what the program is based on pretty much? Just designing/programming/building robots, or robotically controlled systems? both really. Its kind of hard to explain. At the end of university you'll be able to do mechanical systems, electronics, system design, be able to put all of that together and write a program to make it all work :wink: It really depends on what you're into. I'd much rather be able to put a robotic system together and have it zoom though an obstical course (autonomously ofcourse) rather than write a simulation of the same task with preaty graphical interface. It's up to you. ----------------------------------- Genesis Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:59 pm ----------------------------------- Mechatronics sounds really cool actually. Something I'd definatley enjoy. But then comes the question of am I going to need to have like a 98% average to get in? And creating your own OS in computer science eh? Sounds like fun too. :P Though I can't imagine anything better than building robots. ----------------------------------- Tony Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:34 pm ----------------------------------- But then comes the question of am I going to need to have like a 98% average to get in I met people in my program who got in with high 80s :? What you have to do is make an impressive AIF (Additional Information Form) that shows that you belong in the program. That stuff is weighted heavily and could be equivalent of adding 10~15% to your average if you have the right stuff to put. ----------------------------------- Martin Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:09 am ----------------------------------- Check this out too: http://www.nanotech.uwaterloo.ca/ ----------------------------------- bugzpodder Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:08 am ----------------------------------- just note that drop out rate for CS program in waterloo is 50%. the math and CS gets REALLY tough in the end. you've gotta have the appropriate math background. ----------------------------------- bugzpodder Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:15 am ----------------------------------- as for homework, its not so much as its much, but it is quiet difficult. but i am taking advanced math/cs and i guarentee the normal math/cs will be much easier ----------------------------------- Brightguy Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:46 am Re: Computer Science Programs ----------------------------------- So yeah, so far so good. Math is a lot more fun though, the Putnam training is...intense. If you go to Waterloo, I definately recommend taking MATH 145/147 instead of the regular stream math. I have a lot more fun in it. Woah... you train for the Putnam in MATH 145/147!?! How do you 'train' for that? And a math class of 40 people is actually small... Also, why should I take ECON 101? What's the course like and why is it so good? ----------------------------------- Martin Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:39 pm ----------------------------------- Putnam training is extra, not related to the math class that you take. 2 hours, one time a week. We get sample questions and just sit and talk about them. As for ECON 101, the professor is amazing. Wheras your math classes and computer science classes will be just a step up (or a step down, as the case may be) from highschool, this class is something entirely different. Read these comments: http://www.ratemyprofessors.ca/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=9845 ----------------------------------- Martin Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:42 pm ----------------------------------- The AIF and reference letters are very essential. Each can add 6% to your admissions average, and, not only does this mean that you will qualify for more programs, but it also means that you will get bigger scholarships. ----------------------------------- Dan Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:55 pm ----------------------------------- I know no one every gives the time to acautly look in to Lakehead but acautly dose have a good CompSci progame and posabley one of the best tech buildings in northarmica. It is worth checking out if you like smaller class sizes and a small frendly comunity with a beftual campus. ----------------------------------- Martin Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:34 pm ----------------------------------- Lakehead Frosh http://www.marcelreich.com/Bilder/VollBaerattacke.jpg ----------------------------------- Genesis Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:11 pm ----------------------------------- Check this out too: http://www.nanotech.uwaterloo.ca/ Yeah, I was looking at that, kind of interesting, but not so much computer related, which is what I was kinda looking into. That stuff is weighted heavily and could be equivalent of adding 10~15% to your average if you have the right stuff to put. What would be the "right stuff" to put? Other than the Euclid and the CCC, am I supposed to have experience in something mechatronics related? Also, who is a reference letter supposed to be from? I know no one every gives the time to acautly look in to Lakehead but acautly dose have a good CompSci progame and posabley one of the best tech buildings in northarmica. It is worth checking out if you like smaller class sizes and a small frendly comunity with a beftual campus. I actually did look into Lakehead, only because I think you mentioned it before, and it is an awesome campus. But Thunder Bay is pretty far away... ----------------------------------- da_foz Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:31 pm ----------------------------------- Did you go to the university fair this past weekend? If you did and you came by the Queen's Computer table, you probably talked to me. Its really great here (Queen's). ----------------------------------- Genesis Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:29 pm ----------------------------------- Did you go to the university fair this past weekend? If you did and you came by the Queen's Computer table, you probably talked to me. Actually I did! The Queen's program was pretty interesting. Especially the cognitave science and the biomedical computing programs. ----------------------------------- Tony Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:38 pm ----------------------------------- What would be the "right stuff" to put? Other than the Euclid and the CCC, am I supposed to have experience in something mechatronics related? Also, who is a reference letter supposed to be from? I belive that the reference letter must be from ether your Calculus or Geometry teacher. So that's the one you got to make friends with over the year :wink: The 'right' stuff' to put would be interest (not neccesarely experience since that's tough to get) in the program related aspects. Say you're an experienced programmer in C++. Say you can assemble a combustion engine. Say you're in the process of developing AMD128. :wink: Just don't forget to show that you go outside and have friends :lol: ----------------------------------- Andy Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:07 pm ----------------------------------- Did you go to the university fair this past weekend? If you did and you came by the Queen's Computer table, you probably talked to me. Its really great here (Queen's). the only reason why i'd go to queens is if i get a big entrance scholarship ----------------------------------- Genesis Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:52 pm ----------------------------------- the only reason why i'd go to queens is if i get a big entrance scholarship That'd be nice. Although Queen's is a fairly reputable school. (In the sciences at least). So I suppose even a computer science degree (Even though this falls under the math department I'm pretty sure) from there would be fairly impressive. Although I'm seriously considering Mechatronics now. ----------------------------------- da_foz Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:55 am ----------------------------------- Did you go to the university fair this past weekend? If you did and you came by the Queen's Computer table, you probably talked to me. Actually I did! The Queen's program was pretty interesting. Especially the cognitave science and the biomedical computing programs. Do you remember who you talked to at the computer's booth? If it was Sat or Sun and you talked to a white guy, it was me. ----------------------------------- Martin Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:11 am ----------------------------------- As proven by Tony, you don't have to know any math to get into waterloo... For the AIF, just make sure that it shows that you are very academically focused, but that you also live a somewhat balanced life. Make sure to include extra-curricular activities. The Euclid is a definate must if you want to get into CS (or any other math program), but not so much for engineering. The general consensus is that every 10 points you get over the national average on the euclid (usually around 40), your admissions average will go up 1%. That's not on paper though. Here's a rundown of first semester mechatronics and math (CS): Mechatronics: not very much homework, bitchy formatting on chemistry assignments, very arrogant classmates (I'm tony's roommate, and I guarentee that people in his program are going to die when they break their backs trying to suck their own dicks). Frosh is apparently very fun. No electives. A lot of classes per week (35ish hours.) Math: a lot of homework, but very few classes (~15 hours per week). First semester, you aren't in CS, you are in math. That is, everyone going for a BMath has the same classes as you (1 CS course, 2 math courses, 2 electives). Beginning second year, you start to take course specific classes. Lots of asian people (is this a suprise?). Frosh is alright. Very flexible (3 levels of CS class to choose from, and 2 levels for each math class). This I think is the biggest advantage that CS has over mechatronics. Programming isn't a requirement to get into mechatronics, so first semester CS courses are focusing on 'learning how to program.' Now, don't get me wrong. There are some very nice people in mechatronics (and a girl or two I think!), and math has its share of people who are full of themselves too. Basically, do what you think is best. If you are unsure of what you want to do, take math, and take chemistry and physics as your electives. That way, if you decide to switch into engineering second semester, it won't be very difficult. ----------------------------------- Tony Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:41 am ----------------------------------- you need math to get into waterloo... its just that you can continue though waterloo on at 16% :wink: and yeah... I'm under the impression is that where math lacks in hours of lecture, it makes up in homework assignments. as for the classmates... there's a fair share of jerks (Derek :roll: he says "yarr"), but there're some cool people as well. I'm sure there are tons of dorks in math if not more :lol: btw, Martin - doing a quick survey of the classroom, there are 5 girls in within reach without falling off the afixed chair. :wink: ----------------------------------- Genesis Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:13 pm ----------------------------------- Do you remember who you talked to at the computer's booth? If it was Sat or Sun and you talked to a white guy, it was me. Yep, I probably talked to you then. So I think I've decided to aim for Mechatronics. The averages are a bit higher, but that's kind of expected. CS at Waterloo is sounding really heavily math based, (Which is also kind of expected) and although I'm quite good at math, it's not necessarily my most favourite subject. Engineering sounds cooler. (No offence to CS people.) Especially engineering that lets you build things and program them. Plus I enjoy chemistry and physics as well, so enigneering sounds more balanced. ----------------------------------- Dan Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:42 pm ----------------------------------- Lakehead Frosh http://www.marcelreich.com/Bilder/VollBaerattacke.jpg The funnested part of that is that there just was another bear siting and now they got poleop trying to trap it or kill it b/c the last one was a gerzly and was like right outside my rez window. The other 2 where just black bears :roll: Hey i makes u get to classes faster ;) that and the -40 temps :roll: ----------------------------------- bugzpodder Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:59 pm ----------------------------------- well as long as you are not in the math faculty, you are fine for the most part. (we all know what engineering induction looks like) but do understand that cs is in the math faculty, and in order to survive, you MUST learn math. ----------------------------------- JayLo Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:22 pm ----------------------------------- LOL that was you at the queen's table? wow. small world. ----------------------------------- Martin Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:38 pm ----------------------------------- Here is my advice for everyone: look into alternatives. Waterloo isn't the be all and end all of the computer world. The entire Canadian software industry isn't, believe it or not, fueled by UW grads. Now, I'm not saying that UW is a bad place to go to school, rather I am saying to consider alternatives. Also, computer science isn't the only program out there that you will program in. Jobs are getting outsourced as we speak; the marketplace is the most competitive that it has ever been. Now, that's not to say that you won't get a job, but rather that it will be more difficult to find one. To succeed, find something that you enjoy, because unless you enjoy what you are doing, you will be at a competitive disadvantage to the rest of the world. No program, in any university, is a guarenteed path to richness. Make sure that your choice in universities is well informed, and that you consider many other alternatives. ----------------------------------- mynameisbob Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:43 pm ----------------------------------- Does anyone know anything about the computer engineering program at waterloo? Do you have to know a lot of programming because I will only have up to grade 11 programming when I graduate. My school doesnt offer gr 12 cs. And also about all this math stuff, do you guys do extra stuff like read math books and them quiz type thingies on your spare time or do you just do the regualr math at school? if you do pls post sites or books u use so i can read them too. ----------------------------------- Martin Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:50 pm ----------------------------------- You don't need to know anything to go into university. Then again, nobody cares that you got into university, but that you stayed in (and finished) university. So no, programming is not a prerequisite as long as you are willing to devote time to learn. ----------------------------------- Dan Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:09 pm ----------------------------------- The difs in unis in canada is very small comapers to the U.S. where they have perivate unis. So basiclky as long as they have your progame and are going to have it for the time u are going to be there and there phicilitys are good then it will be a good uni for you. Also if the proofs are good, but most real unis are going to have good proofs or they whould not be able to give out real degerags. what realy matters in the work world for compsci, like martin was geting at is 1. that you graduate and 2. that you have work excpeicen. ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:15 pm ----------------------------------- Indeed. Work experience is critical. Go to a school with a good co-op program. If you can get in a year or two worth of intern experience you can list that when jobs require "3 years of prior experience." Such jobs are otherwise inaccessible coming straight out of school. ----------------------------------- Genesis Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:30 pm ----------------------------------- And also about all this math stuff, do you guys do extra stuff like read math books and them quiz type thingies on your spare time or do you just do the regualr math at school? if you do pls post sites or books u use so i can read them too. Not necessarily. All you need to get in are high marks in math, nobody cares what else you may know. Although I do teach myself things on the side if I'm ineterested enough. Computer Engineering at Waterloo is from what I've seen, tough to get into. But like Martin said, programming is not a prerequisite for the exact reason that not all schools offer it. But if you're going into Computer Science, I would imagine you may wanna know how to program in something other than Turing. Also for UW, the Euclid and the CCC help. ----------------------------------- Martin Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:22 am ----------------------------------- You don't "have" to do anything. A lot of people in math do read math books on the side, not because they have to, but because they enjoy it. That's the thing about university that very few people realize. They think: university is a 4 year extension of highschool after which you get a high paying job. To a lot of people, in university, there are a lot of questions that they should have answers for, but don't. Why are you in this program, instead of another program somewhere else? What else did you consider? Do you enjoy what you are doing? To a lot of people, this seems like a strange question. Sure, you like programming, you have good math marks, and tech stuff is so cool and you like video games, so why not go into CS? The competition is fierce. There are people here that have been using straight BSD since they were 5 years old. I consider myself a pretty big geek, but I hear jokes that go WAY over my head. Keep in mind that CS can just be a hobby! If you love something, and are willing to work hard at it, you can get a job making a lot of money just about anywhere. Do what you love, you only live once. Now, that's not to say that you shouldn't go into CS, but do yourself a favour, and go to a comprehensive university's website (I suggest U of T's) and read through all of the course descriptions one afternoon. And I don't just mean "X Engineering" Look at the engineering and math courses sure, but take an hour or two out of your day to explore the arts courses, and the science courses. Keep an open mind, and try to figure out what it is that YOU want to do, not what you think that society wants you to do. At the very worst, you'll have a broader understanding of what is offered. And I guarentee you will find courses that you think are both interesting, and that you didn't know existed. Just make the most out of your lives. ----------------------------------- Tony Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:03 am ----------------------------------- i'm an engineer :lol: well not yet... soon enough after I graduate :wink: but Martin has a good point - do what you enjoy doing. Do something that you're interested in, not because somebody told you "oh, you can draw well in turing - you should become a programmer". That's a no! That is not the proper reason. Ask yourself - "would I be doing programming if I was not paid for it?" if so, CS is the place to be :D besides, I'm not sure about other universities, but here at Waterloo you can take CS as a minor with almost any program. ----------------------------------- Pickles Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:50 pm my thoughts ----------------------------------- Seeing as how im only in grade 12, the only things i know about are things ive been told. Ie. there isnt really a bad school to go to in ontario, as they are all watched by some board, so go where you feel comfortable, where you like the surroundings. because if you like where you are you'll do better than if you hate it. Alot of the marks have dropped now that the double cohort is over, ie the info book has waterloo as "individual selection from the mid 80's" and what not.. or in my case, civil engineering - low 80's hoorah. Not saying that thats guaranteed but its a good guideline i suppose. Mechatronics did look like an interesting program, you can go into it in other universities but you go through the common engineering - common mechanical engineering - then branch off into it.. probably should pay more attention to what the fellows already in university say, cause hey what do i know. ----------------------------------- Genesis Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:00 pm ----------------------------------- Individual selection from the mid-80's won't mean much when 4000 kids with marks in the mid-90's apply. I'd say your better off aiming way above those averages. ----------------------------------- Pickles Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:28 pm ----------------------------------- Thats not the pickles way, bare minimum is the way to be :wink: ----------------------------------- Genesis Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:13 pm ----------------------------------- The bare minimums may not get you into Waterloo. (Not that I'm an expert, but think of all the people that apply there. And then think of how many spaces are available. I'm sure you can do the math.) ----------------------------------- McKenzie Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:20 pm Re: my thoughts ----------------------------------- there isnt really a bad school to go to in ontario Yes and no. There are three things to look at. 1. How good is program X at school Y. Some schools who's diplomas are handed out in bathroom stalls for the most part have a few programs that are top notch. Just because Queens is seen as an "ivy-league" school doesn't mean all of their programs are good. Reverse goes for Lakehead as Dan pointed out. 2. How well do employers view the school. Often times the overall reputation of the school or old info is still in employer's heads. This can become a problem for employment. 3. How much will you enjoy the school. I've seen too many A students go off to university and find they could not handle the social setting. For this you have to know yourself. ----------------------------------- Martin Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:43 pm ----------------------------------- My overall final average was 71%, and I got into the advanced classes and an (albet small) scholarship. ----------------------------------- Dan Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:47 pm ----------------------------------- My overall final average was 71%, and I got into the advanced classes and an (albet small) scholarship. See this is why i think u of w is pergidested in there admision proces, my final avage was much higher then that and i acuatly sent in my aidation infomation from...... ----------------------------------- Martin Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:20 am ----------------------------------- Hah, that number is a bit misleading. My top 6 average was 87, and I did fairly well on the Euclid. Also, Waterloo really likes my highschool. ----------------------------------- Andy Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:08 pm ----------------------------------- i noe someone from massey that got into computer engineering co op wit a 79 avg ----------------------------------- Dan Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:21 pm ----------------------------------- From what i can tell U of W has the most unfair and pergidested admsion proces out of any uni in ont. I know for a fact that they are untrufual about the min avgs they publish for the corses and that they give up to 15% avg bounce for private schools. And i supcected that they are chaging admision avgs on some other things that whould get them in alot of shit with the govement if it was true. ----------------------------------- Martin Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:21 am ----------------------------------- Not private schools. All of the more competitive universities (Toronto, McGill, etc.) have lists of schools. As is very obvious, all schools are not created equal, so the university pretty much decides for itself how good a highschool is. They don't admit this, as these favoured schools would become quickly overpopulated, but they do exist. And, seeing as Ontario's education system is a joke (they now have 'essentials,' anyone in essentials should kill themselves) they have their own ideas of what constitutes fair admission. Waterloo uses the Euclid, the CCC, reference letters, and an Application Information Form. Biased? Sure. But the system works for them. It doesn't mean that everyone who should get in does, and that people who shouldn't get in don't, but they have enough success with it (obviously) that they choose to use it. It's not a secret; there are no government laws about how you determine admissions, so long as it's not racially/sexually/etc. biased. ----------------------------------- Genesis Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:31 pm ----------------------------------- About Waterloo, when you apply, it says that based on your marks, and your AIF, they calculate your admission score. And an AIF can get you up to 12 additional points. Does anyone know how how many points your marks are worth? Or how exactly your "score" is calculated? ----------------------------------- Dan Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:47 pm ----------------------------------- ...so long as it's not racially/sexually/etc. biased. But u of w is doing that, lol. I am not going to get more in to it on a public form tho. Does anyone know how how many points your marks are worth? Or how exactly your "score" is calculated? Well there are 2 awers to that, the truth or the u of w one ;) If you whont the turth msnm me, if u whont the u of w verson of the truth it should say on there webpage. ----------------------------------- Genesis Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:26 pm ----------------------------------- MSNM you eh. Will do. (With what email? Your compsci one?) I wanna learn as much as I can about this. Although I'm starting to lean more towards the graphic design/advertising/video editing or movie making path. I don't know if I wanna go into engineering anymore. Although it's still a possibility. ----------------------------------- Martin Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:00 pm ----------------------------------- If you like Graphics design, go into computer science. When they say that they add up to 12 marks, it is 12 marks to your final average. So if your average is 85% and your AIF/reference letter adds 8 points, your waterloo average is 93%. $25000 scholarships start at combined averages over 100% ----------------------------------- Genesis Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:41 pm ----------------------------------- If you like Graphics design, go into computer science. When they say that they add up to 12 marks, it is 12 marks to your final average. So if your average is 85% and your AIF/reference letter adds 8 points, your waterloo average is 93%. $25000 scholarships start at combined averages over 100% Mind explaining how graphics design pertains to computer science? (I'm sure it does, I'm just wondering exactly how, and in what forms.) And thanks for the info. :) ----------------------------------- Tony Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:18 am ----------------------------------- Mind explaining how graphics design pertains to computer science? (I'm sure it does, I'm just wondering exactly how, and in what forms.) GUI :lol: hehe, well actually there's quite a bit of to do with graphics. Namely making programs to generate graphics. From ploting vector lines to raytracing textures on a 3D model though multiple reflections and refractions :shock: yeah... write your own 3D graphics engine :wink: ----------------------------------- Mazer Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:32 am ----------------------------------- Are you actually doing this? ----------------------------------- Tony Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:40 am ----------------------------------- Are you actually doing this? no, I'm in engineering... but I was looking into it before ----------------------------------- Martin Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:29 am ----------------------------------- Because graphics design places want people with a firm understanding of how everything works. Yeah, it's great that you can do amazing stuff in 3d Studio Max, but they want you to know what exactly phong shading is, and how the program works. In fourth year computer science at waterloo, there is a graphics course, which is considered to be one of the three hardest courses in the math faculty (the other two are real time debugging and operating systems). To summarize, they want to be sure that you can adapt. Technology is ever changing, so they don't want someone who is a master of 3ds max to be useless when 3dsmax becomes obsolete. ----------------------------------- Genesis Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:31 pm ----------------------------------- But will you actually learn anything about programs like 3ds Max, and how to use them? Like to make kick ass models and what not. Or just how they work, and how you would go about making your own. ----------------------------------- Martin Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:14 pm ----------------------------------- No, you have to learn that stuff on your own. If you want the hands on stuff, go to a good american community college. They actually have schools specifically for game design. ----------------------------------- shorthair Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:39 pm ----------------------------------- University of ontario offers a game desing and development degree ... It looks really cool ----------------------------------- Genesis Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:40 pm ----------------------------------- And if I didn't want to go to the states. Anyone know of a good school(s) in Canada. What is the University of Ontario...I've never even heard of that. ----------------------------------- Tony Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:45 pm ----------------------------------- What is the University of Ontario...I've never even heard of that. its a new college with a typo in its name :lol: ----------------------------------- Pickles Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:23 pm ----------------------------------- Its a new degree granting institution in Oshawa, They took their first students last year or the year before i cant remember. ----------------------------------- McKenzie Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:52 pm ----------------------------------- I would be VERY cautious about going to Oshawa for schooling. Although Durham college is reasonable as far as colleges go. Having a University & College on the same campus will most likely dilute the University education. Who will the instructors be? New Profs and/or College Instructors that moved over? Aside from that Oshawa is not the best place to live (sorry all you 'shwa residents...but you know it's true)