----------------------------------- Tony Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:21 pm CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- If anyone didn't catch this yet, CRTC is going ahead with the Usage-Based-Billing for the internets http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2011/2011-44.htm In this decision, the Commission determines that usage-based billing rates for an incumbent telephone carrier?s wholesale residential Gateway Access Services or equivalent services, and for an incumbent cable carrier?s third-party Internet access services, are to be established at a discount of 15 percent from the carrier?s comparable usage-based billing rates for its retail Internet services. What this means is that Bell/Rogers are not happy with customers using YouTube/Skype/Netflix instead of their TV/Phone/etc offerings so they are adding on punitive fees. The kick in the pants is that even if you switch to a smaller independent ISP (which tended to have much better offers), the punitive fees will be mandated anyway. What this means is that your Unlimited/200GB Teksavvy cap will scale down to 25GB/month and you'll pay $1.90/GB on top. (They offer "insurance blocks" at a discount, but that still means that a 200GB cap subscription has just went up by $55/month extra). http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/fbi3i/reminder_to_canadians_bell_and_the_crtc_are/c1epx6d Quick video summary: http://www.youtube.com/v/6rUsRCyS6PU Follow http://openmedia.ca/ and http://openmedia.ca/meter for more info. I plan on blogging in more details later, but wanted to get the discussion started now, as all of us here are affected by this. ----------------------------------- TerranceN Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Wow. I am still reading up more about this, but so far it seems ridiculous. Large media companies are trying to monopolize the internet market, and gouge prices AT THE SAME TIME. If each GB costs them 1cent, overage charges of $1.90/GB is a 19000% markup. Also, with prices like these, and low limits like these, I don't see how Canadians can afford to keep up with the rest of the industrialized world, as almost everything is moving to the internet. I am definitely telling everyone I know about this. ----------------------------------- Sur_real Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:40 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- so wait...basically smaller ISPs are screwed? wow...so much for competitive pricing here in Canada not that there were any to begin with... :( ----------------------------------- Insectoid Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:10 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- As I said in the shoutbox- how will this affect students living on university residence? Also, isn't this against anti-competitive laws or something? It seems very cartel-y to me. ----------------------------------- TokenHerbz Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:00 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- I'm in Canada using SHAW right now, and with the CRTC ruling i feel i'm going to get screwed over big time. I have been paying 23 dollars a month for 60GB cap. However shaw doesn't seem to care when I go over, and its been like this for years, As this link here with my last 2 months use will show. http://i.imgur.com/WYgQm.jpg // Now they are starting to be jews and charge over and already 2-3 days in i hit 1/3rd my cap and i've been strugling on keeping it down. last month i never downloaded movies or games, and its still went over. HAD shaw been jews from the get go, just on the last 2 months of over useage i would of owed them $415.00 in over useage. If you are against this rediculousness join this --> http://openmedia.ca/meter !! shaws other plans are outragious like, 100 bucks for 100 gigs / month. To be frank, shaw pays like .01 / gb they pass so even if i hit 200 gigs / month on my 60gig cap im sure they rather have my 23 bucks then NOT have my 23 bucks, considering it costs them only 2 bucks to pass all that, they make like 1000% profit. So, whats all your thoughts on this??? I think its pretty crazy that i can't even stream HD GOMtv and a day9's and some things without going over... and paying absurd amounts of cash for internet usage, is just pure anger! Free MOVIES or STREAMS (YOUTUBE EVEN) HD anything, COSTS SO MUCH!!! retardedness... (thought i would add this in the forums instead of shout box) So yeah, QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ!!! insectoside : i bet students will have to pay for their usuage, simple as that, unless the universities get discounts or something, should cost more... which is dumb.. people in poverty already who cant afford to do anything and get entertainment from the internet are screwed now to, its not like this country offered great jobs and most people stuck on min wage and i just cant agree with this one bit. Those big companys even tho they lose some service like cable to netflix, still making billions. its a money grab, and a huge one at that, and is going to screw over everything internet related. They are officially, the internet NAZIs, no better then china blocking shit to their population. ----------------------------------- Insectoid Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:17 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- -I still use my landline. -I still watch my cable TV. Lots of people still use landline phones and cable TVs. The number of people who have completely dropped their landline and cable for cell phones and Netflix is tiny compared to those who still use them. ----------------------------------- ProgrammingFun Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:21 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- -I still use my landline. -I still watch my cable TV. Lots of people still use landline phones and cable TVs. The number of people who have completely dropped their landline and cable for cell phones and Netflix is tiny compared to those who still use them. And that is what the CRTC is taking benefit of.... ----------------------------------- TokenHerbz Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:21 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- regardless if you still use their service, you will have to pay more for your internet... I know for myself, i stopped cable, (even at like 9.99 i said no) and i DO use a phone. But TV is one thing i stopped in favor of the internet. ----------------------------------- Sur_real Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:34 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- I just realized something I mean... -In Canada, they screw your internet with third world pricing -In the US, they screw your internet with the proposed 'Kill Switch' bill aka see Egypt (although luckily for them, it's still being introduced to the Senate...) -In China (and parts of the Middle East?), they screw your internet with firewalls and censorship -In Egypt, they currently have NO INTERNET (WTF?!) Only Europe is safe with their EU? ----------------------------------- TokenHerbz Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:56 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- well i would love to see riots and protesting and shit to show Canada we won't stand for dumb ideas. We slave daily and we don't need to be kicked in the nuts every month too... IMO.. ----------------------------------- ProgrammingFun Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:58 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- well i would love to see riots and protesting and shit to show Canada we won't stand for dumb ideas. We slave daily and we don't need to be kicked in the nuts every month too... IMO.. +1 ----------------------------------- Tony Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:36 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- well i would love to see riots and protesting and shit to show Canada we won't stand for dumb ideas. We slave daily and we don't need to be kicked in the nuts every month too... IMO.. Something is in the making: - http://twitter.com/ubbtor - http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=188341937853896 ----------------------------------- Tony Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:44 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Double post, because this is important. http://www.reddit.com/r/Canada is the place to be for discussions now. http://www.antiubb.com/what-can-i-do/ is an important list of things to do. - Sign the petition at http://openmedia.ca/meter - Email CRTC - Email newspapers - Write to Industry Canada - Complain to Competition Bereau of Canada against Bell - Write to political parties - Write to major software companies that will be affected by a shift in consumer usage (Google, Apple, Netflix, Steam) - Use Faxes for bonus points! - Spread the message. ----------------------------------- Insectoid Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:19 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Quoted from the CRTC's As an independent organization, the CRTC works to serve the needs and interests of citizens, industries, interest groups and the government. My needs and interests are certainly not being served here. To hell with citizens, interest groups and the government, let's just serve the industries! In telecommunications, the CRTC ensures that Canadians receive reliable telephone and other telecommunications services, at affordable prices. Assuming 'other telecommunications' include the internet, to hell with affordability! And damn, hasn't Bell got the most reliable network you've ever connected to? the CRTC?s role in telecommunications is evolving. In many telecom markets, several consumer choices are available. This natural competition results in better prices and packages for consumers. In these cases, CRTC allows competition, not regulations, to drive the market. The CRTC regulates only where the market doesn?t meet the objectives of the Telecommunications Act. True: Competition is good. False: CRTC promotes competition. A retail customer is the end user who purchases access to the Internet. The CRTC does not regulate rates, quality of service issues or business practices of Internet service providers as they relate to retail customers. This is because there is enough competition in the market that retail customers can shop around for service packages. No, but they regulate weather or not a super-ISP can regulate what wholesale ISPs can charge retail customers. So, indirectly, they do control retail prices as evidenced by UBB. A wholesale customer is an Internet service provider who buys bandwidth in order to access the Internet from a cable or telephone company and then resells that access to retail customers. The CRTC regulates rates and quality of service issues for wholesale services. The CRTC regulates the relationship between these resellers and the cable and telephone companies who own the infrastructure needed to provide Internet access, in order to ensure that Canadians have access to a range of Internet providers. This is accurate. I'm sure there's loopholes in most of these such that the CRTC is *technically* still upholding its mandate. ----------------------------------- Tony Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:51 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Oh, CRTC has been busy lately -- http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5570/125/ The CRTC last week quietly proposed a significant change to the rules on false or misleading news broadcasts on radio or television. The law currently provides that a broadcast licensee "shall not broadcast any false or misleading news." The CRTC is proposing to amend the law with respect to television and radio by lowering the standard to "any news that the licensee knows is false or misleading and that endangers or is likely to endanger the lives, health or safety of the public." In other words, it would perfectly permissible for a broadcaster to air false or misleading news, provided that it not endanger the lives, health or safety of the public. ----------------------------------- Dan Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:24 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Sadly i don't see anything short form a bill in parliament adding new regulations stooping UBB or cabinet overruling the decision (as was done with wind mobile). The CRTC is full of ex employees and executives from Bell, Rogers, etc and has cearly show who's side they are on. The CRTC is an independent organization and only answers indirectly to parliament through the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Minister of Industry. The problem with an overruling coming from the cabinet, is that we currently have a conservative cabinet that has historically sided with businesses over people. The problem with parliament stepping in is that in the time it would take to create the bill, have it read in parliament, debated, passed, etc we will have had an election which causes all current legislation being debated or tabled to be thrown out. Also most MPs are old ritch guys who do no have a great compearhsion of issues relating to the Internet, would never used modern services that use large amounts of bandwidth, can easily enforced the overage fess and probably have their Internet supplied or paid for by government Canada. On a personal level it has no effect on their lives at all and they could careless, however losing support of several large businesses and the CRTC could mean trouble for them politically. Unless a signfiact number of voters in their ridding are willing to vote for a different candidate over this issue there is simply no reason for them to care. Tony's idea of encouraging companies that this effects indirectly like netflix, google, etc is also a good one. However in most cases theses companies are rather small compared to the likes of bell and do not have the same kind of foot hold over the CRTC. You can write to the Minister of Industry, Tony Clement, who would be the one to overrule the CRTC on behalf of the cabinet but it would amaze me if the conservatives would do something that is in favour of regulation. Your best bet is to vote in the next election and tell your MP why you are or are not voting for them. They will probably never read your mail but their assistant likely will keep them informed of how many people are support X or objecting to Y. Also you can try to remove as much profit from the monopolies as possible, if you have Bell, Shaw, Rogers, etc as your ISP switch to cheaper plans. If you have them as your cable company, cancel your cable. If you are lucky like me and have a local ISPs that do no resell from the monopolies and do not have bandwidth caps switch all your services ASP and let your old ISP know why you are leaving them. TL;DR: Every one in southern Ontario is screwed, your only chance is to start voting in elections. ----------------------------------- Tony Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:58 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Every one in southern Ontario is screwed, your only chance is to start voting in elections. For those in/planning-on-going-to Waterloo: there's http://yak.ca/high-speed-internet - Unlimited downloads, yes, really! - No usage-based billing Apparently those guys have their own lines in the region, so they don't have to take shit from Bell/CRTC. I'll see if I can hook up with them in my building, and keep you all posted. We should still vote in elections though ;) ----------------------------------- TerranceN Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:04 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- @Tony: I will definitely look into them, as I live in Kitchener, plan to go to UW, and would love to get away from Rogers. So thank you for that link. ----------------------------------- Dan Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:00 am RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- NDPs position on UBB: http://www.ndp.ca/press/canadians-lose-out-with-internet-metered-billing ----------------------------------- Tony Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:29 am RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- My blog writeup on UBB (looking into CS education/innovation): http://compsci.ca/blog/ubb-metered-internet-will-restrict-innovation/ ----------------------------------- Amailer Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:22 am Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Every one in southern Ontario is screwed, your only chance is to start voting in elections. I think that's what pisses me off the most; we have no other alternative, there is no other competition and the Canadian regulatory system is letting it stay that way. So damn pathetic. ----------------------------------- ProgrammingFun Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:41 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Every one in southern Ontario is screwed, your only chance is to start voting in elections. For those in/planning-on-going-to Waterloo: there's http://yak.ca/high-speed-internet - Unlimited downloads, yes, really! - No usage-based billing Apparently those guys have their own lines in the region, so they don't have to take shit from Bell/CRTC. I'll see if I can hook up with them in my building, and keep you all posted. We should still vote in elections though ;) Is there any chance that I can get those benefits from Toronto/Scarborough? Sadly the area where I live is basically a Bell/Rogers monopoly...Toronto is not the place for local ISPs to flourish... ----------------------------------- Tony Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:23 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- from FAQ Yak High Speed Internet is currently available in select areas in Ontario, namely: Kitchener-Waterloo, Barrie, and certain areas within Toronto. Stay tuned as we expand our coverage. Call Customer Service to verify service availability in your area at 1.800.490.7235. It's not clear as to what areas though. ----------------------------------- ProgrammingFun Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:37 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Thanks for the info... ----------------------------------- RandomLetters Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:53 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Does it really matter? I think this is good because cable internet is subject to bottlenecking, and now I wont be getting screwed over by people that are downloading movies every single day. It's only fair that you are paying for what you are using, although I think that overall prices do not need to be that high. ----------------------------------- DemonWasp Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:15 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- 1. People are already, by definition, paying for what they use. The existing services were in a "tiered" formation, meaning that if you were "downloading movies every single day", you were paying for that privilege. 2. Cable internet is not subject to "bottlenecking" so much as "throttling". Your service should not be substantially degraded by other people using the network. If it is, then you have a right to take that issue up with your ISP, as they are not fulfilling their contractual obligations. 3. You will now be paying 100% more than you were previously for any given plan. Equivalently, you are now getting 50% of what you used to get for X dollars / month. This is entirely because of UBB. 4. Some of us, such as those fortunate enough to be on TekSavvy, are getting hosed even worse. My bandwidth cap will be dropping from 200GB to around 100-120GB at the same price-point. TekSavvy doesn't even get the extra money though -- it goes straight to Rogers / Bell. ----------------------------------- TokenHerbz Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:46 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Also, I don't watch cable, the shows i like to watch are things like Anime, Streams, (Esp SC2 related), and the random new movie or house episode. I don't think I should have to pay extra to watch these things that arn't even associated with freaking BELL. The star craft 2 scene alone with GSL and things of the sort, I hit like 150 gigs worth of streams. And instead of me paying my dollars to say, blizzard for watching their content, Its going to internet? That was perfectly fine with me watching it for months before??? So now instead of a 23 dollar a month internet bill, If i wanted to watch all the content of this, I'll be looking at an EXTREMLY HIGHLY PRICED internet package, OR forced again, With a higher priced package, with 1 / 10th of the content i'm usually viewing. So how is this fair RandomLetters? I think it matters. ----------------------------------- RandomLetters Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:26 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Why not? You pay for the transportation of gas and electricity to your house. You pay fees for withdrawing money from ATMs, and fees to deliver goods to your house. The internet is not free. We simply don't want to pay this amount. Of course, not everything we pay is fair. It is strange, what we will pay for and what we will not. And I think this will prove that, because despite all these complaints, and these exorbitant prices, people will still use it. Is this fair? Who knows. But this is how it is. ----------------------------------- TerranceN Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:30 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- There are two problems that you don't mention. 1. They are imposing these rates on any ISP's who buy usage from bell (they now get a 15% discount because of all the protesting), forcing these small ISP's to charge the same as Bell, or because of operating costs more than Bell. This gives little or no reason for people to use them, allowing Bell to stifle their competition. 2. Of course we don't want to pay this amount. They are charging about 200 times as much as it costs them to supply you with a GB. This is a ridiculous price for something that (once the infrastructure is put into place) costs next to nothing for them. To put this into perspective, image buying a pack of batteries, which lets say the store can buy from a manufacturer for $1, if you saw that pack of batteries on the shelf for $200 you would probably want to go buy it somewhere else. Now lets say a large corporation owned most (if not all) the stores in an area, and charged $200 at every store, what could you do? Also, as Tony wrote is his blog this stifles innovation. Who in Canada would create anything innovative that uses the internet, when most people cant afford to use it? They may either scrap their idea, or move somewhere else, its a lose/lose situation for Canada. ----------------------------------- TokenHerbz Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:23 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- terranceN wrote : 2. Of course we don't want to pay this amount. They are charging about 200 times as much as it costs them to supply you with a GB. This is a ridiculous price for something that (once the infrastructure is put into place) costs next to nothing for them. (i read it costs .01cent per GB to transfer, making this a 1000+ % charge) could be wrong tho... still its a HUGE markup... randomLetters: while i agree nothing should be "FREE" i must disagree with you again. Services such as "you tube" and such sites, offer "FREE (data - we'll say) -> and to get this "data" you pay your ISP to get it from the "WEB" to your PC (transfer - or delevering) --> We pay for ISP, and get all the free you tube we want. g r e a t . . . Problem now is, Super low unimaginable caps make this "free" youtube, now cost money. How would you feel if you paid your bus fair to go use a library computer or borrow a book (free services) but now you got to pay 1 dollar for everything (free) cause the (authors 'for expampel') want to collect on their money since your viewing their matierials... I mean that example is pretty weak, but the idea still stands. I pay the ISP to use the WEB. the WEB is free. I shouldn't have to get charged to use the WEB and pay for everything WEB related ontop of it. ----------------------------------- RandomLetters Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:21 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- im thinkin here that example is terrible, since authors of their books have all rights over it, and in the case of this, bell doesn't have rights to youtube. So applogies for that, i'll try to think of some great exampel for you, but to be frank, I don't think we've had a nazi hitler since WW2 among us... Really now :roll: I think a better example would be to go to the library, instead of paying a $1 bus fare, now we have to pay a $2 bus fair. Really, what is the difference between this and oil prices, or food prices, or what we pay for clothes, which arguably cost little to produce. Also, where did you guys get these statistics on how much it costs the ISPs to provide internet? ----------------------------------- Dan Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:44 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Why not? You pay for the transportation of gas and electricity to your house. You pay fees for withdrawing money from ATMs, and fees to deliver goods to your house. The Internet is not free. We simply don't want to pay this amount. Saying that every one just wants free Internet is clearly a straw man of the anti-UBB movement. The problem is we do pay for it and we all ready payed far more than we should before UBB. The only reason bell, rogers, etc are putting in this new fee is solely to gauge every dollar they can from the consumer. There is no shortage of bandwidth in Canada, reports Bell had to give to the CRTC during the throttling issue showed that there network was underused. Also ATM fees are BS, it costs the bank less money when you use the ATM then physically going to a bank. The only real difference between banks and ISPs in terms of ripping off the costumer is that banks simply don't have the monopoly to push their fees and rates as far as the ISPs due. Of course, not everything we pay is fair. It is strange, what we will pay for and what we will not. And I think this will prove that, because despite all these complaints, and these exorbitant prices, people will still use it. Is this fair? Who knows. But this is how it is. The options most people have are pay an unfair rate or have no Internet at all. If their was the possibility for competition in the market, most consumers would not pay the unfair rates and move to ISPs offering fair rates. To give an idea of just how unfair the rates are, for the same price as a Shaw plan with 100GB/month and 15Mbps I could rent a server in a data center that has multiple up links to a tier one ISP, over 2TB/month usage and a 100Mbps connection. For the cost of Shaw's extreme plan with 175 GB/month and 50Mbps i could rent two serves with the same specs as before or one high end server with a totally unentered 100mbps line. Why does it cost so much for slow restricted residential Internet? The problem lies in the "last mile". There are several tier 1 or 2 ISPs that have networks and lines providing a backbone through Canada. As their is no monopoly, pieces are fair and their is healthy competition. However most people are not luckily enough to have their house built on or close to theses networks access points and most tier 1 or 2 ISPs only deal in bulk sales (well data centers are large business/organisations like universities are). This is where the tier 3 or home ISPs come in to fill in the "last mile" and where the problem lies. In most places in Canada (or at least Ontario) you have one phone provider and one cable provider who own the "last mile" of lines running from the higher tier access points to the home consumer. Since the magoir methods of getting Internet are Cable or DSL this effectively limits the market in any given area to 2 ISPs + any ISPs that resell the service from the first two. Unfortunately for the consumers, the magior "last mile" providers have realised this and are basically working together to fix prices, rates, fees and quaily of service. This is acuatactly quite illegal (price fixing, Anti-competitive practices, etc) however no one in power seems to care or be able to do anything. But it gets worse, this was just the situation before UBB. The magoir residential ISPs also have a monopoly on television broadcasting in Canada. Shaw and Rogers are cable providers and Bell has satellite TV. This would not be that relevant to UBB if it was not for new services such as netflix, youtube, torrents, etc starting to provide more and more video based media over the Internet, cutting massively into the profits of transitional video broadcasting. Additionally theses free or very cheap (pay per month) services are cutting into the profits of theses big providers Pay-per-view and video-on-demand services that charge customers per movie. UBB is how the big 3 plan on protecting their monopoly not on the Internet but on video broadcasting and video on demand services. The issues has nothing to do with bandwidth directly but how they can shutdown netflix and friends with out being sued or fined out of existence (e.g. simply blocking netflix, youtube, etc would end in a class auction law suite and new regulations on the industry). Even if you are a traditional conservative this should concern you as it is it is anything but a free market and one of the few cases most traditional conservatives believe regulation is appropriate. ----------------------------------- Dan Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:02 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- I think a better example would be to go to the library, instead of paying a $1 bus fare, now we have to pay a $2 bus fair. It would be more like the goverment paying for all the buses in canada, handing them over to one company, passing a law that only that one company can run busse services and outlawing taxies and cars then having that one company charging $500 a month to use the bus and then $10 per mile you travel on it. Then saying that gass costs to much so they will now be drving the bus at 1/1000 of the speed they advertise. ----------------------------------- RandomLetters Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:11 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- So if we had this problem before the UBB, why all the complaints about it now? We should be asking for more, asking for it to go even further. After all Canadians pay much more than people in US or Sweden or Japan. What I don't understand is, this happens all the time, so why do we care now? ----------------------------------- Dan Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:20 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- So if we had this problem before the UBB, why all the complaints about it now? Becuses they are trying to take over another area (video on demand) buy intnealy degrading the litte we have. Most of us have been complaing the hole time, it is only now that it has been pushed to the point where the average person is taking notice. We should be asking for more, asking for it to go even further. We should be asking for the hole CRTC to be disovled and reformed with portections so this can not happen again and regulations put in place opening the last mile for real comptition. The problem is no one in power is willing to take the risk. Some parties are in favoir of more regulations on telcomunactions such as the NDP, it's up to you to vote for them (or at least a party that cares about the issue). After all Canadians pay much more than people in US or Sweden or Japan. What I don't understand is, this happens all the time, so why do we care now? Eventualy you get to a point where peoleop can't take any more, and then you have a revolution. In this case not a violent revolution aginsted the goverment but hopfully a policy revolution that fixes the CRTC and the current state of telcumcations in Canada. ----------------------------------- chrisbrown Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:52 pm Re: RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- So if we had this problem before the UBB, why all the complaints about it now? The current landscape is what it is because of gradual changes that, by themselves, get through with little more than grumbling from Canadians. After all Canadians pay much more than people in US or Sweden or Japan. What I don't understand is, this happens all the time, so why do we care now? Why Canadians Care: The use of Skype, Youtube, Netflix, etc.. means Canadians choose to use the internet rather than the phone and TV offered by major ISPs. In a fair market, the ISPs would adapt their business to compete with these services. Instead, the UBB ruling means they can charge extra for use of these services, forcing consumers to choose between an extortionate internet bill or sub-par ISP services. People love to say, "if you don't like it, choose something else." UBB means "if you don't like it, deal with it or leave the country." In short, we care because it's a serious problem. ----------------------------------- Dan Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:15 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- Since in mentioned that the NDP are anti-UBB it is only fair that i should also point out that the liberals as of today have now offical supported the movement as well: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2011/01/31/technology-internet-usage-based-billing-clement-garneau.html http://openmedia.ca/blog/liberals-come-out-support-stop-meter Their may aucatacly be a chance now, however it is the cabinet that has the power to overrule the desion not parlment. I am not sure if parlment can direct the goverment to overrule a CRTC desssion or how long it would take to make a bill to do so. ----------------------------------- TokenHerbz Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:48 pm RE:CRTC Metered Internet (UBB) discussion ----------------------------------- i have always been libaral, ill have to see what they promise. But for reals, I have a feeling they are in over their head, We promote "GROWTH" and all kids of greatness, I for one, wont stand for this... And im sure, many of other canadians won't either... enoughts enough, and this pushes that way far... good links DAN,