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Amailer

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:44 pm


Bell allowing government to monitor users

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[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060627.gtsecurity0627/BNStory/Technology/home]EEP
Why does bell have to turn evil? XD Its in their new updated service agreement too which went in place on June the 15th I think


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Dan

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:46 pm



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Sigh....

*starts seting up a VPN*


Luckly i am on shaw (lol, lucky to be using shaw? thats a 1st) but they will be falwoing suite soon enougth.


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Clayton

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:47 pm



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hm, that is deeply disturbing, perhaps i should change from Bell...


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Amailer

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:49 pm



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I think all the ISPs will soon have to follow, because of a new  "Modernization of Investigative Techniques Act" [[url=http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16387505]DSLReports]o.O


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Clayton

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:07 pm



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hm perhaps ill have to found my own ISP :D I dont like the idea of ISP's having to follow suit


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Dan

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:12 pm



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pfff, lets just set up a buch of vpn networks where the servers run tor. At a very least it whould confus the hell out of them.

There is still hope  :wink:


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Martin

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:13 pm



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I'm totally at a loss here. I always thought that the Conservative's philosophy was less government involvement for greater personal freedom (versus the liberal philosophy of greater government involvement for greater individual well being).

I seem to be wrong...


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Clayton

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:15 pm



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That's kind of what i was thinking about too, but w/e. to me, gov't is a joke either way, it's "lets screw the people for our benefit" if you ask me, but thats just my opinion....


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Dan

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:38 pm



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I'm totally at a loss here. I always thought that the Conservative's philosophy was less government involvement for greater personal freedom (versus the liberal philosophy of greater government involvement for greater individual well being).


No, no, no. The conservatives whont less goverment involvement in social programs and moeny wise. As in more freedome for companys. How ever in wester socirty the right has tradational been on the side more active millraery and poicing. The libraral or more left parts whont less freedom for the copreat world and meony wise but less policing of the indivuals. For exmaple left whould take your moeny and psyical objects well the right will take your unpsyical rights.

Now like everything this is not allways the case, but in wester socity the right wing parts allmost allways whont more milltrary, less taxs, more policeing and left wing whont more taxes, more social progmes and restrions on orginsations.

We could take serveral acactions of the consertivaes rechently to see this. The increases in militray speending, bring up the gay rights issue affter it was allready voted on and decied and now new policing acts.

Just my option tho, so flame away.


That's kind of what i was thinking about too, but w/e. to me, gov't is a joke either way, it's "lets screw the people for our benefit" if you ask me, but thats just my opinion....

I may disapove of the goverment at times but it is hardy lets screw the people for our benefit", there is to gain to any one by doing that. Shure the consertives whont less social progmras so there can be less taxs but they blive that gives peoleop money to get what they need, well the left partys blive that peoleop can not eforced thess even with the tax breaks and even one should pitch in to help socity as a hole. 

Neither ideaogly is ment to screw over peoleop however wrong or right it maybe. If you get invaled in some poltices, even local ones like unvieristy poltices you will soon understand why things take so long and seem like they are just trying to screw every one. In reality they are trying there best in a realy messed up system.


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MysticVegeta

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:52 am



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Wow this really sucks. They could access our personal info anytime? Thats rather disturbing to hear, eh? I think they should set up some flags, like, if the person has visited some backdoor sites and they know the person is not using for educational purposes, then perhaps take some action or some other sites are filed under "illegal". This is really stupid. Some people actualy have their credit card #s / Debit card #s and passes stored on comps or on their Browsers. This is crazy...


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Martin

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:37 pm



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The problem I have with this isn't that they can access the information - the problem is that they can do so without a warrent. Most terrorists are Muslim, right (at least by name, not in action)? So let's monitor all of the internet connections of Muslims. We'll only arrest the criminals, but all of a sudden Muslim people are under unfair legal discrimination.

Then later, one of these people gets arreseted for shoplifting. But, they now have his internet record, so not only is he shoplifting, they now also hit him with a file for downloading a few CDs off of BitTorrent.

It's a slippery slope. If I had Bell, I'd phone them and tell them that I'm switching to Cogeco because of this.


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Dan

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:17 pm



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I rember the good old days where you needed this things called a warent befor jumping over your rights and when you could not hold peoleop indenfitaly with out charging them.....

Thos where the days.....

Good thing we don't live in a dictoaor ship where they can run in to your hose and hold you fover for no reason..........we live in a decomercy where they can run in to your house and......  :wink:


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Ninja

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:07 pm



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lol, im glad im not with Bell. I recall someone at school i think was talking about this, one of the teachers but then i didnt pay any attention to it, but now it seems like not only Bell, but every ISP will follow that in time to come. But like mystic vegeta said, the issue with private data (credit card#/debit card #'s). I think even though it is stored in your browser, the government will only be monitoring on your network seeing what you are doing when you are on the internet, but accessing your personal information without letting you know will be considered as a crime, they cant just go into your PC and see your personal info/data..well lets hope they dont lol. Its mainly to stop piracy since companies dont pay much attention, like cogeco. Their bandwith on the lite internet package is 15gb or 10 gb i think. My friend has that and he downloads more then 20gbs in a week sometimes and cogeco doesnt care, we even emailed them asking about bandwith and i kid you not it said "We do not monitor user bandwith unless it is exceeded above a certain limite", my friend just went over twice the allowed lol so i dont know what they are doing. Well lets see what the government does..


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r.3volved

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:54 am



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:? 
They can't access your computer...
Be your passwords and credit numbers saved in your browser or archives on your machine, they only have to right to watch what goes through their connection. Gaining access to anyone's machine is illegal without a warrant.

This is where the RIAA has fucked up far too many times...trying to find out what people have stored on their machines by rooting them. Bell is an ISP (obviously meaning they provide internet service), they have every right to filter content which they provide you access to, and they have every right to monitor their networks just as I'm sure most of you on this board do with your own private networks. 

Think of it as a gas company monitoring their lines for debris and usage...they can see how much gas was used and at what times and at what houses...but they can't see which device in particular used the gas, or how/why. They certainly can't tell any model numbers or serial numbers of anything that used said gas without:
1. Tresspassing
2. Break and Enter

Anything stored on your machine is inaccessable by your ISP. They can argue that you may have been viewing illegal content, or maybe you've portscanned and fingerprinted some poor suckers machine and they've tagged you...but they can not gain access to your computer by any means, at any time, or for any reason unless it's done by the authorities with a warrant. (in which case they will come to your door and bust it down)  :D


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cool dude

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:26 am



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just wondering, if your downloading free software, which actually costs money, would they fine you for that, since now they will know your doing it? and unfortunately i'm with bell sympatico, and they are already charging me extra money for exceeding bandwidth.


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Mazer

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:56 am



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Oh, don't worry about that. Free software doesn't cost money.

If you mean to ask about pirated software, this isn't really changing anything. Haven't you heard about people getting in trouble with their ISPs before for downloading movies and programs? It's one of the reasons people get BitTorrent clients that use encryption.


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r.3volved

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:08 am



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But you have to remember that in Canada you are legally allowed to "borrow" copies.

Meaning if you download from someone, you are simply borrowing the file. They aren't pushing it on you, you are going out and searching for it yourself. If YOU make a copy of the download then YOU have broken the law. You are allowed to lend media to eachother, like a CD...but whoever copies it is the one who gets in trouble. 

Pirated software isn't illegal to own, it's illegal to use for personal gain.
That is currently what seperates us from our american cousins to the south.

So your ISP can monitor what you do online, but they can't monitor what you do on your own machine. They have every right to inform law enforcement of illegal and unlawful activities such as spamming, child pornography, selling illegal file copies, hate propaganda, etc. in which case it's in the hands of the law.


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Amailer

Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:30 pm



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Doesn't that 'borrowing' only apply to mp3s? The guys who copyright software (aka, adobe XD) complained to my ISP  :roll: and my ISP threatened to terminate my internet for a time period of it happned again, though they did say they did not give out any personal information.
This was around a year or two ago


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r.3volved

Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm



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As far as I know, it only applies to digital media (ie. Music and Video)
Also, cracking software is NOT illegal if it is for educational purposes...but read the software TOS first. If it says it's illegal then it is.

hahaha you got busted downloading pirated adobe software?
That's pretty funny since you can download trials right from their site and crack into a full version...


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Amailer

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:08 pm



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yeah i knw, and it is funny- either way, the host that I dled it from (not sure what it was, but I do know that..) it got shutdown soon after that o.O


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Amailer

Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:31 pm



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Some 'news' I suppose:
Here is what has been communicated to us about the article:

Some notes regarding the Privacy issue

"¢ Misleading news coverage has been made in the news regarding Bell Sympatico customer service agreement suggesting that Sympatico is unlawfully monitoring customer's accounts.
"¢ This information is misleading and Bell Canada takes customer privacy very seriously.

Bell Canada Position:

Bell Canada has a long and established history of protecting the privacy of its customers. Bell collaborates with law enforcement agencies only when presented with a legitimate court ordered warrants. To suggest that we are illegally or routinely monitoring our customers beyond legislative requirements is inaccurate and false."

I want to reassure you that Bell Canada is committed in protecting our customer's privacy. We only work with law enforcements agencies when they have a presented us with a court-ordered warrant. This is consistent across the Internet Service Industries. 

