----------------------------------- MyPistolsIn3D Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:59 pm Makin a Website ----------------------------------- What are the best programs to make a website in? At school we are using Dreamweaver and SwishMax, but there has to be other better programs... ----------------------------------- [Gandalf] Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:19 am ----------------------------------- WordPad > All in Windows. Try learning how to actually do it yourself. Makes the result much neater. ----------------------------------- wtd Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:24 am ----------------------------------- WordPad is an exceptionally bad idea. It opens the possibility for saving as something other than plain text. On Windows, I like Textpad. ----------------------------------- rdrake Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:39 am ----------------------------------- If you have to use a program, then please avoid Frontpage at all costs. It creates bloated pages filled with MS only tags. Any text editor would work well. ----------------------------------- Tony Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:30 am ----------------------------------- If you're looking for a bloated page that misserably fails W3C validation tests and doesn't work in most browsers - try saving a MS Word documents as .html :twisted: Otherwise a text editor of choice. Preferably with syntax highlight if you're scripting something. ----------------------------------- Boo-chan Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:19 am ----------------------------------- If you're looking for a bloated page that misserably fails W3C validation tests and doesn't work in most browsers - try saving a MS Word documents as .html :twisted: :shock: That's too evil for even you Tony! Basically, any program that automatically generates HTML for you is probably a bad idea unless your prepared to go through and edit the code which usually takes as much time as writing it from scratch. ----------------------------------- Martin Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:24 am ----------------------------------- vim doesn't get any votes? You guys suck. ----------------------------------- Tony Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:31 am ----------------------------------- it's a fair assumption that MyPistolsIn3D's school doesn't run *nix :lol: ----------------------------------- codemage Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:48 am ----------------------------------- NotePad in Windows. Once you've figured out how to code proper HTML, you can learn Frontpage. (It's better than dreamweaver). Then you can use your HTML skills to get rid of the extra crap that Frontpage creates. ----------------------------------- Amailer Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:00 pm ----------------------------------- Notepad or [url=http://www.editplus.com/]EditPlus 2 which is what I use, though for the PHP syntax highlighting I changed mine a bit to match PHPs built-in highlighting system. And of course, always test your pages with http://validator.w3.org 8-) ----------------------------------- eklypze Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:41 pm ----------------------------------- I've always been fond of Dreamweaver because it has a feature to tidy up my messy coding. :wink: Although it is a fairly large program, and loads slowly on my computer. So I switched over to TextPad which loads much faster, and I'm very satisfied with it. :) ----------------------------------- md Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:15 pm ----------------------------------- I use frontpage... but before I get beaten into a pulp it's only because of the syntax highlighting and auto-indentation. I write all the code myself... it's also useful because it's preview window shows what IE will display, and by opening the page in firefox I can see it there too. One I get the layout done and start on the php scripting I usually do away with the preview and just use frontpage for the indentation... if I had something that would do that for me I'd switch in an instant... ----------------------------------- Amailer Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:18 pm ----------------------------------- Get the "View IE Tab" extension for firefox... this way all you have to do to switch from browsers is click the "IE Tab" icon on your status bar and it switches :) Don't even need another window opened... For you editor just use notepad or something ;D ----------------------------------- MyPistolsIn3D Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:19 pm ----------------------------------- Yea... I kinda didnt wanna hafta learn html tho lol. ----------------------------------- rizzix Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:42 pm ----------------------------------- [url=http://www.realmacsoftware.com/rapidweaver/index.php]RapidWeaver Ownz.. It gets my vote for the best non-dynamic website development application. It basically requires you to use that tool alone. If you can live with that it's great. If not then I suggest you try something else. ----------------------------------- codemage Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:24 am ----------------------------------- I've used Dreamweaver, and it's not bad (and I like the clean up code option) - but I don't like its functionality for switching back and forth between design and code views. Some of the ways that it implements code done in the design view is nonsensical. I like Frontpage b/c I can have both views open at once. Fronpage does *some* things quite intelligently - so it's much faster to do it in design mode. Some things require the expertise of code view. ----------------------------------- md Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:42 pm ----------------------------------- Anything that writes the html for you is probably writing some horrible code. No matter what you use you still need to make sure the code is standards correct... the W3C validator is your friend ;) ----------------------------------- Dan Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:24 pm ----------------------------------- I vote for pico Got to love the comandline text editors ;) ----------------------------------- wtd Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:32 pm ----------------------------------- Graphical design programs (Frontpage, Dreamweaver) come and go on whims. Plain text does not. ----------------------------------- Martin Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:06 pm ----------------------------------- ed is the only way. It's the standard text editor. ----------------------------------- MysticVegeta Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:08 am ----------------------------------- I have liked Macromedia Fireworks for doing a website with lots of graphics and images whereas for simple plain websites, notepad it is! :) ----------------------------------- Mazer Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:48 am ----------------------------------- Which begs the question: Who likes visiting webpages with lots of graphics and images? ----------------------------------- codemage Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:22 am ----------------------------------- Graphics / images are great, as long as they add functionality to the site. ...which means that they're bad on most sites. ----------------------------------- Tony Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:47 am ----------------------------------- I have liked Macromedia Fireworks for doing a website with lots of graphics and images Although what you should really be doing, is loading all of the colours, positioning and images through CSS. That makes for a plain page to do in a texteditor, and then a plain CSS to also do in (probably the same) texteditor :wink: ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:27 pm ----------------------------------- Graphics / images are great, as long as they add functionality to the site. ...which means that they're bad on most sites. Content is king. Flashy graphics get people to visit your site once. Text keeps them coming back. Ex: Slashdot. ----------------------------------- Tony Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:56 pm ----------------------------------- Flashy graphics get people to visit your site once. Text keeps them coming back. Ex: Slashdot. Second. [url=http://maddox.xmission.com/]the best page in the universe :lol: ----------------------------------- MysticVegeta Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:42 pm ----------------------------------- hmm well I used lots of images/graphics because mostly I designed anime websites... ----------------------------------- rdrake Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:31 pm ----------------------------------- hmm well I used lots of images/graphics because mostly I designed anime websites...As long as you design the site properly, then images aren't necessarily bad. Just make sure they are optimized, load fast, and fit in with the style and content. There's actually a product out there that will let you test your site as specific speeds to make sure it loads quick enough even for low bandwidth visitors. It's called [url=http://www.xat.com/wo/]WebSpeed SImulator. Not sure of any free alternatives out there though, if anybody knows of one, I'd be interested in knowing about it. ----------------------------------- Tony Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:49 pm ----------------------------------- Not sure of any free alternatives out there though, if anybody knows of one, I'd be interested in knowing about it. The free version might not be as graphically detailed.. What you do is: download the page onto the harddrive, add up the size of the page itself + all the content that was pulled along with it. Total size / download speed of choice = load time :lol: ----------------------------------- wtd Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:14 pm ----------------------------------- hmm well I used lots of images/graphics because mostly I designed anime websites...As long as you design the site properly, then images aren't necessarily bad. Just make sure they are optimized, load fast, and fit in with the style and content. The phrase of the day: Graceful Degradation. If your site's images can't load, does it ruin the site, or can the site still be used? ----------------------------------- 1of42 Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:34 pm ----------------------------------- Flashy graphics get people to visit your site once. Text keeps them coming back. Ex: Slashdot. Second. Win. His material is getting a little old though. ----------------------------------- codemage Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:38 am ----------------------------------- He doesn't update his site nearly enough. ----------------------------------- Tony Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:17 am ----------------------------------- The point was about having a great site based on content, not flashy graphics or even tricky styles. ----------------------------------- Dan Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:57 am ----------------------------------- I'd debate whether his "content" is of any value.......Tho your point is still ture. Peoleop will vists the unglist most porrly desgied sites over and over if they have some content they can only get there. ----------------------------------- Mazer Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:59 pm ----------------------------------- As proven by this place. No, wait... ----------------------------------- Tony Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:04 pm ----------------------------------- just keep on refreshing the page, something good will come up... soon... soon... ----------------------------------- Amailer Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:47 pm ----------------------------------- I don't think slashdot has the greatest layout, but still its extremely popular :) (because of its content...of course)