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Startegy Game... Idea Stage (command & conquer)

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Startegy Game... Idea Stage (command & conquer)
% Background Info Hey all, I've been coding in VBasic for a few years, and last year I signed up for a programming course at school. (gr. 11) ; but due to my VBasic experience I found TURING quite easy, and am almost done the course. (yes, I know the semester just started). So I decided to make a strategy command & conquer type game for my final project. (Due at the end of the semester, June or w/e) Now i've only been doing TURING for a month or w/e, so you could still call me a nub, but I am very familiar with programming, and learn exceptionally quick. % Stuff I need to learn Sprites, and file access (save, load etc.) (thats all i can think of so far). Um, the map and scrolling would problably be required too. % Body Right now, I am just in the Idea/Planning stage. I am posting this ecause it would be nice to get some more ideas then just from me and a couple friends. All ideas are welcome, but won't necessarily be used - and YES, if I use your idea you will get ur name in the credits! 8) % Ideas NOTE I want an advanced gameplay game, I've never found one advanced enough for me . Opening vid... (pre-recorded, just need to play)start of war blahblah Every mission needs to be based off the last (technologies, troop placements etc.) developing a more realistic campaign type feeling. Start of game - large stockpile of money in case of war, low income. Game will have normal playing, research, vehicle development & creation, population of cities, immigration, emmigration * Money is made by tax from people, who react to tax rates and propoganda. % Conclusion - finally lol Nothing is final ATM, just throwing out a bunch of ideas, all others would be appreciated. Also, I would greatly appreciate if anyone has a good formula for damage, needs modifiers, attack, armour etc... although I will more then likely be doing my own. *I would like this game to be based in this time period, give or take 10 years or so.* Steve _________________ Now, how do u adjust map height? Oh, use slider height CHECK "OK, Time to stop being a dumbass!"

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Graphics...
% Help Cry I know this is a huge thing to ask, but if anyone would do some graphics for me, I would forever be in debt. I couldn't draw to save my life. Otherwise I will attempt to find and edit pics myself. % Details If you will do some graphics for me, even one, send me an email: biohazardouswaste@hotmaill.com I'm going to need the following (for starters): BUILDINGS: - Command Center/Con Yard/HQ - Factory - Research Labs - Barracks - Radar (would be nice, but hard to code?) - War HQ (sort of like the Battle Lab in RA2) - Power Stations - Cloak/Radar Jammer (possibly, gonna be hard to code) - Walls - Guard Tower UNITS: - Heavy Tank - Light Tank - Scout (hummvee type vehicle) - Infantry - Air/Hover (would be nice, but special code.. shouldn't be too hard) %Conclusion ** It would be nice to have about 5 of each, for customization... or if possible, have a sprite for propulsion, chasis, armour, and weapon; so that the gamer could completly customize unit. (if possible wit sprites... but this is a little over my head ATM). goes off to find some info on sprites Steve _________________ Now, how do u adjust map height? Oh, use slider height CHECK "OK, Time to stop being a dumbass!"

Author:	shorthair [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:
Id like to let you no before you start this , that you ( my opinion ) will not be able to complete this in turing , the turing engine , is software based ,you cannot harness the video power of your hardware in turing , and also you can barely bet one moving graphic to go nicely on hte screen in turing , let alone a command and conquer , and the processing time it would take becusaeyour players would have to be in processes ( i would assume ) would be hurendoud , it would feel ike you were running at 1 fame per minute , this would be a very hard task and im not sure it can physically be done , but it would be great to see if you are confident , and PS i dont belive sprites fully work in turing , there just there for show

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanx for the Hedads Up dude, hopefully it won't be THAT bad (1 fps ouch). If it is, it looks like i'd have to go turnbased ... that could have its benifits though (online based game). I may have to drop some of the fancier stuff... e.g vehicle design grafx. But I will do this... with some help Also, does anyone know how to have a graphic act like a button? E.X. You click on a pic (unit) and it displays results (brings up info display)

Author:	shorthair [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:
oh and turing cant play videos , the only way to get round that is to launch it from turing , but youwould have to assumethat the user had an app that could launch it and that it was the default launching program for hte movie

Author:	.hack [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:
I'll help u with GFX. Don't use population,tax, immigration etc. this is a war game, not a build a city, name it some cool game and wait 10 years for battle, Stick with classic C&C. Build a barracks, send crap to kill crap with crap.

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:
Yea, I figured that... a lot of old games have a seperate .exe for playing their videos... blinkplayer I think. Not sure though, I was thinking of something like that, but that is extra, like one of the last things to do. Right now I need to focus on the core coding and that, so I need to get some good ideas. So assuming that we go turn-based, do you see anymore problems with the idea? If not I will start some of the "paper-work" in the next couple of days (what effect research will have, price, income, etc.)

Author:

Tony [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:02 pm ]

Post subject:

with a good planning at the beginning (core code layout) this should be quite achievable (as long as you dont do any semi-intence graphics... just the basics).

And shorthair - NO PROCESSES (unless you're playing background music... which might not be a good idea for this type of project. Though you can always just load a soundtrack into their default media player Laughing

)

Just have something like

code:

for i:1..numOfUnits
unit(i).Act
end for

Author:	Catalyst [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:
this can be done turing has the speed for a basic rts (i made a prototype of one a while ago)

Author:	AsianSensation [ Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:
an RTS made without processes could actually go pretty fast, depends on your programming method and stuff like that. Notice you are going for efficiency, so you might want to cut off on some of the more detailed version of your graphics. I have seen an RTS made with processes, it was in my gr. 11 turing class last year, and boy was it slow. So it basicly all depends on your programming techniques.

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:11 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Don't use population,tax, immigration etc. this is a war game, not a build a city, name it some cool game and wait 10 years for battle, Stick with classic C&C. Build a barracks, send crap to kill crap with crap. The population part of the game won't be very in-depth, and it will be one of the last things done. But as I said, I don't want a classic old - skool C & C type game, I want it to be a little more advanced... also there will be no "ore" or "tiberium" or anything, so we will need more form of income. The most part of the game, will be the war by far... but we need some resources.. if any one has some better ideas - feel free to post. Quote: And shorthair - NO PROCESSES I was planning on using procedures, for all of this... should be able to do that, unless somebody has something against that.

Author:	Tony [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:31 am ]
Post subject:
well actually OOP might be your best bet. Creating a unit as an object and having an array of pointers could work out well As for resourses - you defenatly need to mine some natural reserves. I dont see how population taxation will work out in a military game since your town is your military base. But I suppose you could capture trade ports and what not for additional income

Author:	Andy [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:39 am ]
Post subject:
yea it wouldnt lag that bad... and who said turing cant play videos?

Author:	Tony [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:40 am ]
Post subject:
You can run short videos in a form of .jpg slide show

Author:	recneps [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:
who says its needs to be a full video? do something like the Zero Wing starting, display a pic, then text, and maybe some voice over, and repeat until your story is done, and maybe some funky text effect that makes it seem like someone is typing as it is being read. (All Your base are belong to me.)

Author:

Cervantes [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:14 pm ]

Post subject:

BioHazardousWaste wrote:

Also, does anyone know how to have a graphic act like a button?
E.X. You click on a pic (unit) and it displays results (brings up info display)

code:

var x, y, btn : int
loop
Mouse.Where (x, y, btn)
locate (1, 1)
put " x : ", x
locate (2, 1)
put " y : ", y
locate (3, 1)
put "btn : ", btn
end loop

That's how to use your mouse
Mouse.Where (x,y,btn)
I'm sure you can take it from there Smile

I think that's a really good goal, and I wish you the best of luck in making it. If you need any help with coding it give me a shout and I'll do what I can Smile

Author:	shorthair [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:
Ok in reply to dodge , how the heck can turing play a video , it can do animation of pictures but not video , he was talking about a little intro andstff , and in reply to the graphics , if you want to pu units on the screen dont you think that after mabye 5 tanks turing is going to shoot itself ( but the turn based night solve that ) , i am no where near the level of complexityit would take to code this , i mean it isnt that diffucluct in a more powerful language , but to work around turings shortcomings ,is very difficult , i think that turn based is your best bet ,

Author:	Cervantes [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:
after 5 tanks turing would most definately not shoot itself. all you need is a few arrays. one to store the x value, one for the y value, and one for the picID. if you wanted to do more graphicle things then you'd need arrays for angle and animation pic (like if its walking or not ) by the way bio.. Use records (look up type in the help file). that will make everything a LOT more organized

Author:	shorthair [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:
cervanes have you ever tried having 5 moving things in turing all at once , especially ones that have graphics , just think about it , turing would be going pretty slow

Author:	Cervantes [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:
yes I have... I've had WAY more than 5 going.. 100 is okay. with graphics... I don't think that should make too big of a difference. Just make the graphics pretty simple and most certainly not bmp

Author:	shorthair [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:
but think of the fact that they would ned to be thinking so they would all need to have a procedure , determining wheter they shouldbe firing defending or moving , thats why turn based is the ay to do it , so you only have to worry about one unit at a time ,

Author:	Cervantes [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:
if you make this turn based you should most definately make it more like civilization.. turn based C&C would just suck anyways shorthair as long as you keep everything simple in coding it should be okay.

Author:	Tony [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:
shorthair - you defenatly dont know what you're talking about... first of all - just look at all the particle engines with 100s of objects moving individually on the screen. And the difference between RTS and turn based is that instead of wating for the unit to compleat all of its tasks before moving to the next. In RTS it is just like turn based, but on much smaller scale. Like really small steps like move a step, reload weapon, fire, build, w/e... unit's AI determines which step to take and ends that unit's turn. But since all of it moves soo fast, it seems as if all units take those turns at same time

Author:	shorthair [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:
i agree with that , but if you look at his original ideas , it dosent sound so siple does it ( and the graphics sound detailed ) , im jsut basin in on what he said , you would have to keep the graphics real easy , just enough to identify what is was

Author:	Cervantes [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:
agreed. buildings, however, could be nice-looking since they don't have to move. the units should be very simple though. First step would be to make it with coloured ovals as the guys and buildings, to get the code right. Then use single framed pictures for the units and buildings. make it as effeciant as possible. then use simple animations (like a 2 step gun firing where theres a cool looking yellow jagged triangle in front of the gun). by the way, this going to be a top down view right?

Author:	AsianSensation [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:
do OOP, cut down on graphics, like make your game super small resolution (well, not super small, but small enough so it doesn't take so long to redraw, about the size of Evasive Maneuver ships I would say would be the best). Another idea, draw only the object that you wanted to display, keep track of the info of all the other units, but draw the ones that is in range of your screen.

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:
% ANOTHER LONG ASSED POST % plan stuff Here is my plan... a) write a game before June - not the best b) hand in for mark (better be 100% or i'll be pissed, seems how the rest of the class is doin Tic-Tac-Toe) c) when finished.. UPGRADE to version 2, make it WAY better d) over the summer learn some C++ and make a good real-time game This way, I will have a final project for sure, and will not have to worry about any time limits, and that will help me work better. Version 1 will be very simple, then I will add some more advanced stuff. Version 1: Basic game... bases, units, income (minimum) Version 2: Research, Unit Creation, Better Animations (depends on whoevers doin gfx), Sounds (hopefully) anything else that may come up between now and then (ideas welcome) <b><center><font size = "4">Turn Based/Real Time</b></center></font> I had this thought last night, sort of to incorporate the two together. Turing can't use the vid card so grafx = shit on a stick, but there are 1000 ms in a second, and that is the CPU interupt time.... correct me if i'm wrong but that means that the CPU can handle 1000 instructions per second. Now I know windows and such takes some up, but say 5 or 10, should be no big deal. So, we could use turn based due to graphics, but have combat sort of real time. When a unit moves, the game will check within x pixels of the new location to find an enemy unit, if found it will check its stance (attack, defend, stand ground;) if the unit is close enough to the enemy, based on it's stance, combat will ocuur. Similarily, when the attacker fires, the defender will fire back (obviously)... but I was hoping to incorporate a ROF into it. (not sure if ver 1 or 2). So that a jeep's MG would fire say 25 times per turn, whereas a med tank might fire 3 timers per turn. I know this won't make it real-time, but it will be closer. <b><center><font size = "4">Mining Natural Resources</b></center></font> Quote: As for resourses - you defenatly need to mine some natural reserves. I dont see how population taxation will work out in a military game since your town is your military base lol NO WAY is the town going to be your base... if i do this, it will be completely different. I don't know how you would do natural resources, because you would need a pic on the map, which updates with how many resources left, you would need some way to take the resources from there, and give to player... i'm sure I could figure it out if I thought really hard, but it sounds a little confusing ATM. <b><center><font size = "4">Visual Aspect</b></center></font> Map, Graphics, Animation, Headache... This will not have stellar graphics, I realize units will have to be very basic. I read this thing on pic.rotate and it said clipping occurrs quite frequently, and suggested that you have 8 pictures, one for each of the 8 main directions, then load the appropriate pic. But I think that would take WAY the hell to much HD space... what do you guys think, any other way around this clipping?? And overall I was planning to split the TURING window into three parts: --------------------------------------- mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm \| mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm \| \|mmm Map - Main Section mmm\| mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm \| mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm \| mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm \| mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm \| mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm \| --------------------------------------\| \|Available Commands \|\|Unit Info\| ----------------------------\|UIUIUIUI\| User Commands (get) \|UIUIUIUI\| --------------------------------------- I'm thinking of using GUI for some things... to change screens mostly (e.g. change the main map view to the research screen, or economy screen (ver 2?), or unit design screen (ver 2?)... This will more then likely be top-down view, although it may be nicer to have an angle view (noone wants to look at the top of a building) Does anyone know how to split the window into the three dif. parts (map, info, command section), so I can refresh only that part?

Author:	Tony [ Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:53 am ]
Post subject:
you can use View.UpdateArea to refresh just a part of the screen.

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Title...
OK, was thinking of calling the game "Era of War"... problably won't stick, but I hate unnamed projects. So, during coding it will be referred to as "Era of War", and if I change the name, it will be the last thing I do. (Name ideas are, naturally, welcomed)

Author:	Cervantes [ Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:
yes you can use View.UpdateArea (turing 4.0.5 only) or you could ACTUALLY have 3 different windows that would involve Window.Open.. I don't think thats the best way to go though switching between windows means having to click an extra time I don't think clipping should be a problem.. try it first with Pic.Rotate then if that doesn't work I guess you'd have to have a bunch of different pics.. check out Asians rotation and movement tutorial at http://www.compsci.ca/v2/viewtopic.php?t=3542

Author:	Tony [ Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:
3 different windows will not work out well. Since you'd have to check if the window is still active before every single output which will become a huge drag as we're aiming for max efficiency to pull this project off (well to make it run nicely) Single window would just look soo much better and View.UpdateArea from 4.0.5 release solves the problem of partial screen updates

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:
hmm Makes sense ... well, I have worked out my attack and defend formulas on paper, so I will try it soon. It would be really nice to have a moveable window... but if it's too much of a lag, I guess I won't be able to do that.

Author:	Mazer [ Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:
tony wrote: 3 different windows will not work out well. Since you'd have to check if the window is still active before every single output which will become a huge drag as we're aiming for max efficiency to pull this project off (well to make it run nicely) Single window would just look soo much better and View.UpdateArea from 4.0.5 release solves the problem of partial screen updates I'm not sure that you'd still have to check for which window is active since you've already blown away the idea of using processes. That means that the only way the active window can change is if the user clicks on a different window for some reason, in which case you just change the active window within the program when you need to draw something to whichever window you need to. Though it probably would look like crap having three run windows open. And you'll always run into the problem of moron users closing the windows with the X button at the top instead of letting it close by itself when the program is done with it. So, yeah, one window would be optimal. BioHazardousWaste wrote: hmm Makes sense ... well, I have worked out my attack and defend formulas on paper, so I will try it soon. It would be really nice to have a moveable window... but if it's too much of a lag, I guess I won't be able to do that. What do you mean, exactly, by having a moveable window? Do you mean having the position of the window move around the screen or like having a scrolling map? If the latter, I don't see why that would cause too much lag, it'd actually be more fun if the battlefield isn't limited to the size of the run windw.

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:
I meant a seperate window, where the user can see status... e.x. Factory Built Infantry Trained HEAVY TANK does 83 dmg to MEDIUM TANK MEDIUM TANK does 49 dmg to HEAVY TANK which they can move around there screen at liesure... but I am pretty sure I will incorporate it now, instead of using seperate screen, it just makes it a lot easier.

Author:	Krabjuice [ Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:
I wonder, how are you going up pull off the click and drag aspects that make RTS games playable?

Author:	BioHazardousWaste [ Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:
good old shift key ...

Author:	Mazer [ Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Krabjuice wrote: I wonder, how are you going up pull off the click and drag aspects that make RTS games playable? If you mean to click and drag to select units, that won't be so difficult. you get the mouse coords when you press the mouse button, then take the coords again when you let go. Compare the coordinates of your units to the coordinates of the box, and if they're inside they become selected.

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