Computer Science Canada

Trash Turing!

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Trash Turing!

I find it quite stupid that so many schools teach Turing when it is clearly ass. It is just such a crappy programming language. I think that Programming classes should start with a good programming language like C++ or Java, which are actual programs you can use in real life if you go onto CompSci jobs.

Author:  Cervantes [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:03 pm ]
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turing all the way!!

turing is taught in schools not because it is powerful but because it is a good programming language to learn first. That is, its fairly simple. that's your problem, but its not a problem for gr 9's Razz

there is a rumor at my school that we are going to switch from learning Turing to learning java.

that would be sweet, but I think only the gr 11 and up compsci courses should learn java.

Author:  shorthair [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:05 pm ]
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i hate to flame you but , any school that would teach c++ first in theade nine i think would be retarded ,why would you torture the students , and they would never be able to find there errors , do you even knowhow to code in c++ , becuase wit han attitude like that i dont think you undestand what turing is for , is says at holtsoft , " This is not a commercial laguages " and i s implemented for learning puproses only

Author:  shorthair [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:07 pm ]
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there are over 100+ programming languages there , all youhave done is listed some of the few that are most used , i use BASIC ( BLitz to be exact ) , how can you put turing against VB , thats just totally unfair comparison Shocked Shocked but if i were to vote it would be for BASIC

Author:  Cervantes [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:17 pm ]
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the poll is fine.. if you don't think that the best is up there don't vote for one and say what you think is best... or either vote for the best one up there but say what you think is really the best.

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:59 pm ]
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Visual Basic is still a language of sorts. W/e VB kicks ass.

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:01 pm ]
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Hahaha who added PHP? Thanx though I forgot about it.

Author:  Amailer [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:09 pm ]
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Rolling Eyes GO PHP!

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:12 pm ]
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VB beats PHP any day.

Author:  Mazer [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:31 pm ]
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I don't think it makes any sense to even compare them. VB is for making applications, PHP is for web development.

Author:  Cervantes [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:37 pm ]
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wait!! I change my vote to unix!! Razz Razz

Author:  Andy [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:45 pm ]
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uhhh vb is cheap... it spell checks for you... if u forget a capital, it'll put it on for u

Author:  Amailer [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:54 pm ]
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VB is also CHEAP for the web Very Happy (you can make sites and etc with VB or something rit?)

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:20 pm ]
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dodge_tomahawk wrote:
uhhh vb is cheap... it spell checks for you... if u forget a capital, it'll put it on for u


Isn't that good?

Author:  Andy [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:21 pm ]
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yes... for those who cant type

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:22 pm ]
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But still even if you forget it does it for you. How is this bad in any way?

Author:  Amailer [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:23 pm ]
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VB is sad and a BS language..i tried it for a week i think Very Happy

Author:  Maverick [ Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:25 pm ]
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I like it cause you can integrate software and hardware in in i.e LED's and stuff. It also makes sense unlike damn turing.

Author:  DanShadow [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:13 am ]
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Maverick...(sorry to flame) but your an absolu te fool. I have wanted to be a programmer ever since I started looking beyond programs. (which was 3 years ago). I started out by learning HTML....very easy. I moved on to VB, it sucked and was to cheap so I went on to Java. I understood absolutely nothing, then moved to Cpp...which also tau ght me nothing. I then learned C...but could only grasp enough concept of it to create a calculator. Learning good programming languages (cpp, java) at th e start will not help you on your way to becoming a programmer. You MUST learn the basics of programming, which is why Turing is introdu ced in your first year of Compu ter Science. In my school, CompSci starts in grade 11...my teacher taught Turing, and then tried to transfer to Java....but nobody understood any thing...I barely understood it. So he kept with Turing. Turing is a language similar to pascal, and english...which makes it very easy to code because its like english.
code:

put "Hello World"

After 1 semester of Turing...I mastered all that had been taught, plus much more. Next year, we are being taught Java, becau se that is wh at th e teacher decided to learn last summer. (lol) A better idea is instead of java, teach Cpp. Lets take a look at the difference:
Turing:
code:

put "Hello World"

Cpp:
code:

cout << "Hello World" <<endl;

Java:
code:

System.out.printIn("Hello World");

Now do you understand? If you go straight to cpp or java....new programmers wont understand a thing. With no experience in programming, what the heck does "cout" mean??? What does "system.out.printIn" mean??? Its far too confusing...thats why a begginers (kind of) program is used...Turing "put". Then after teaching that for a semester, the n ew programmer gets a good grasp of the structure of programming, and can move on to a bigger step into something like Cpp or Java.
I hope you understand e veryone, that Turing CANNOT be Trashed! If th is happens, it could very well mean the end of computer programmers, or at least a large decline. So for the benefit of computer science, Turing must live on, and get better. This way, more stupid people can be infused with programming knowledge...but not before using something to grasp the aspects of programming. (ie. Turing)
Now NO more trashing Turing!!!

Author:  shorthair [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:32 am ]
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very well said , i said that the first time i responded to this thread ,

Author:  DanShadow [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:36 am ]
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ok....obviously somebody felt necessary to unlock this forum....(probably dodge) I locked it for a reason....its not a good idea to have people talking about trashing turing for the reasons stated above...an d for the good all newbie pro grammers....thistopic shouldnt be ab out trashing turing

Author:  AsianSensation [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:37 am ]
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Turing is good for learning programming, it's pretty easy to pick up by yourself. But no one uses Turing to program anything that is market worthy. It's good for teaching, like in some University's programming course, they don't start with C++ or Java, they start with some language no one has ever heard of (kinda like Turing).

So Turing has it's ups and it's downs, no need to trash it, cuz I mean Tom obviously spend sometime updating the stuff for us and everything.

Author:  Andy [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:38 am ]
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it wasnt me

Author:  shorthair [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:40 am ]
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I got bets that asian unlocked iit , but anyway , turing has come along way , tom has tried to give the ambitios kids somthing to reach for ,by amaking turing more game compatible ( BAsics ) , i mean look at hte joystic ksupport and the view.update / Area aswell , And turing is awsome for DWITE , if everyone used vb or C++ for that contest , i garunteee mabye 5 of the teams would place,

Author:  DanShadow [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:13 am ]
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hmm...supposedly not I, dodge, or azn unlocked it....and no other mods were online.... im reporting this to Dan....this could be serious. (Possible hacker in the database or someting...)

Author:  McKenzie [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:22 am ]
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Asking "What is the best programming language?" is kinda like asking "what is the best kind of saw? Hacksaw, Jigsaw, bandsaw...." It is an incomplete question. More usefull questions are:
What is the best programming language to learn first?
What is the best programming language to have fun with?
What is the best programming language to get a job?
What is the best programming language to make a program for my dad's shipping company?
What is the best programming language to make a proffesional game?
What is the best programming language to ...?

Each language has pros and cons. The agument of "I tried language X for one week, it SUX" is absurd. If you don't understand why a language is popular say "What is language X good for? I tried it and just don't see the point."

Author:  DanShadow [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:01 pm ]
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Well said.
Pros
Turing:
- easier graphical capabilities
Cpp:
- easier, more, and better net commands
Java:
- you learn more computer language, like system.out.printin is more to the point of what the ocmputer is doing, opposed to put and cout
Cons
Turing:
- weak net capabilities
Cpp:
- harder to include graphics
Java:
- harder to learn

Author:  Maverick [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:22 pm ]
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You obviously sucked at VB which is why you think Turing is better then it. Turing is really easy to learn but after about a year of using it becomes kind of pointless to use. Only people who are extremely good at Turing can make an extremely good game i.e. Mazer.

Author:  Cervantes [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:25 pm ]
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look at 3d engines made in turing.. look at the potential that Homer's projectile movement tutorial has, look at the particle blood program....

Turing is a language that is easy to learn but doesn't stop its potential after a year of learning... there is a lot to Turing...

oh yeah and look at the games in the examples\games section of the Turing folder

Author:  Maverick [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:06 pm ]
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Im aware.

Author:  Cervantes [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:28 pm ]
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so whats wrong with turing?

Author:  Tony [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:44 pm ]
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well... that turing does not offer enough for a handfull of people who went above highschool curriculum Confused

Author:  Cervantes [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:03 pm ]
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well Turing isn't meant to be used beyond the highschool curriculum so while in highschool Turing is fine (imho)

Author:  the_short1 [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:41 pm ]
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God.... i could use turing for some realy Wicked Stuff..... its very ez to learn... fthe first day in class ( i used a bit of Basic Language Before on a TheRadioShack-80 Color Computer 2) was able to know how to make my Maple Leaf Program with reversed axis.... only 2 days of turing class.... then it got hard with the more advanced commands that i acuially had to learn.... you can self teach yourself the whole Turing class for gr.10 with just reading the text book and Help Files.... o and the Help of friendly compsci Gods...!! HEHE Wink !!!... i am pro now.... i think i might try to make something REALY good with turing after highschool... just for kicks... DONT BASH TURING!!!

Author:  the_short1 [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:42 pm ]
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oh yea.... this should be locked Again.!!!! Admin Should....

Author:  Cervantes [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:05 pm ]
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nono this is a good discussion Smile

Author:  Triple Five [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:37 pm ]
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i like Vb cause i like application making... im not really into making games and such so java and turing arnt my favs eventhou high-school compsci teaches turing...html is also very cool to know just incase you need a webpage... Very Happy

Author:  Cervantes [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:40 pm ]
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how is knowing HTML > knowing how to use Microsoft Frontpage?

(other than knowing languages is good and all)

i dislike VB because it is too oriented on making applications... Turing (pure code) grants so much more freedom.
and also, why can't Turing do really good programs like C++ or Java? I know it can't, but I'm wondering whats the reason?

Author:  AsianSensation [ Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:49 pm ]
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Cervantes wrote:
and also, why can't Turing do really good programs like C++ or Java? I know it can't, but I'm wondering whats the reason?


ask yourself this:"Why is there no 3D engine made in turing?" Of course, we have all seen Catalyst's but that's no where near the stuff Catalyst made with OpenGL and DirectX. SilverSprite made raycasting, but it's way too slow, because it was done on turing. Particle Engines made with turing, after so many particles, it would literally freeze up your computer. So sure you can make all these with turing, but you won't be making a good versions of these engines.

Author:  DanShadow [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:02 am ]
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VB bites...
I think I should re-lock this topic. If I get 5 different people posting past t his post saying they agree with this topic being locked, I will lock it. (Or another Mod)

Author:  shorthair [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:11 am ]
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Im #1 for LOCK , you have made a huge post about hte whole problem , thats all people ned to se ,there is no need formore on this topic

Author:  McKenzie [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:10 am ]
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Why would you put in a parting shot then ask to lock the topic? Do you honestly think one side of the VB vs Turing argument is going to "win"? I'll bet I've used both more than anyone on this site, and I can tell you that they are both great for what they are good at. To say that VB sux, you have realy missed the point.
...
OK I've said my peace
...
LOCK it up Wink

Author:  Tony [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:39 am ]
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I'm tempted to leave this open and see just into what this might turn...

but then... neah, I had enough of this LOCKED

Author:  DanShadow [ Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:51 pm ]
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tx Tony...
Yeah...Trash Turing? wtf are people thinking?! It was getting out of hand, stupid person who started this topic, heh. (not me)


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