Computer Science Canada

Liberal Party Takes Ontario

Author:  Dan [ Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Liberal Party Takes Ontario

Liberal Party just got a majority goverment in ontario!

lets hope this is a good thing for education and more spending on need progames like computer sinces Wink

Author:  Amailer [ Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:12 pm ]
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Ya they did!
voting (of some thing to do witht he goverment) was in my school also Confused

Author:  AsianSensation [ Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:24 pm ]
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our votes don't actually count, but oh well, we are all potential voters in 4 years, so they better listen to us now...

Author:  Dan [ Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:25 pm ]
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oh ya that kid vote thing was cool.

here are the relostes for kids vote:

PC - 0 seats Twisted Evil
LIB - 93 seats
GREEN - 1 seat
NDP - 9 seats

to bad thous dont count in the real thing, but i think thous results are very intresting. think of what deabting whould be like with thous seats, lol.

Author:  naoki [ Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:36 am ]
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i'm a lazy bastard so i'm not gonna find out about the politicians on my own free time (thousands of "hell yeahs!" are heard around Canada) so if those people really give a damn about us teens voting properly then they should take some of our school time (preferably during chemistry) and educate us with some nice slideshows

and not after school, cuz we've got enough to do without sitting through a 3 hour debate. remember folks, teenagers aren't equipped with patience

Author:  PaddyLong [ Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:50 am ]
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it's too bad that pc didn't remain in power Sad ... my theory about why the liberals won the "kid vote" thing is that they're all just pissed off because the pc changed our education system... over all made it better, except for the marking scheme ... but the curriculum is much more challenging and plus you finish in 4 years rather than 5

Author:  Dan [ Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:52 am ]
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PaddyLong wrote:
it's too bad that pc didn't remain in power Sad ... my theory about why the liberals won the "kid vote" thing is that they're all just pissed off because the pc changed our education system... over all made it better, except for the marking scheme ... but the curriculum is much more challenging and plus you finish in 4 years rather than 5

you are sooooooooooooo wrong, but i dont whont to turn this topic in to a debate so i will leave it at that.

Author:  Tony [ Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:31 pm ]
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the fact that Earny Eves (PC) is twice the age of Dalton McGuinty (Liberals) might have had a lot to do with teen votes.

Btw, PCs have cut SOO much from education... You know why highschool is 4 years instead of 5 now? Cuz it costs less Laughing

Liberals are going to put money back in education and health care. I've heard they're going to try to lower university tuitions too Surprised

Author:  Corybu [ Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:44 pm ]
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tony wrote:
I've heard they're going to try to lower university tuitions too Surprised

What about college?

And are they going to raise minimum wage, like they said?

Government officals say they will do alot of things, but I hardly see anything to benefit us happen.

Yea, we got a new, challenging curriculum. the teachers are learning this with us though. You cant ask for extra help if they dont know what they are teaching yet.

Good idea, bad implementation. It should have started in kindergarden, and progressed every year frmo there. Then the kids wouldnt get thrown into this new curriculum, they would have been put in it like we were put in the old one. They would have not noticed a huge leap in the curriculum.
(it was basically like skipping a grade).

Our education is screwed, and out healthcare is too. I sat in an emergency room about 4 years ago, and I was bleeding bad (cut my thumb off) and I almost passed out before I could get in, while 4 or 5 people with a cold went in before me.

Yes, I cut my thumb off... If you want to know how, just ask. its not important enough to describe here.

We need a government official to do something for us. Not to help the economy. Yes, canada is in debt, but theres not a damn thing we can do about it. We need a change, and hopefully the new liberal party can start some change.

Author:  poly [ Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:56 pm ]
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when he said "universities" that does also include colleges, but it's not like College is a big hefty price like university is.

Also I was actually hoping and I knew that Liberals would take it. Look at the past 8 year...Health care and education have been a total mess in my opinion.

What is up with the PC giving corperations 3 billion was it? Sure it will help raise our economy up a bit, but you won't see results for a bit, what the PC's should have been worrying is taking that 3 billion and breaking it up and putting it back in health care and education. I say we take out our problems before worring about throwing money around.

Ooops didn't realize my last point was similiar to Corybu last point...Oh well!

Author:  AsianSensation [ Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:04 am ]
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another thing about liberals, they don't support that private school tax return thingie (don't recall the exact name). See most people that sends their kids to private school, gets a tax return because when they pay tax, part of that goes into the public school system, and since their kids aren't using it, they get that money back. This causes segregation between the rich and poor.

Liberals support the no tax return policy, they believe that since these people live in Ontario, they should rightfully pay tax for the education system, doesn't matter if their kids go into private or public schools.

Author:  PaddyLong [ Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:35 am ]
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actually you're wrong about the college/university tuitions... it's the PCs that want to put the cap on it for most programs, although some programs like medical programs and others wouldn't have the cap because they're more expensive to deliver and also people in such fields would be able to pay off debts easier after graduation... the liberals want to leave it as a private thing...

"We need a government official to do something for us. Not to help the economy. Yes, canada is in debt, but theres not a damn thing we can do about it. "
....uhh helping our economy is doing A LOT for us .... without a strong economy the country will crumble ... private taxes will go up because there won't be the money generated from the economy to pay for things like health care and education... it's called planning ahead... think of the 3 billion or whatever he was going to give to the corporations as an investment... instead of spending all the money right away for short term gain, the PCs want to invest it in a sound economy for the long term

as far as health care goes... the PCs have budgeted 28 billion - half of Ontario's total budget - for health care. but the health care issue is not just provincial... it's not just Ontario having issues with health care funding... it's because the federal government (liberals...) are not giving enough to the provinces for health care.

education... well the liberals big thing for that is "smaller class sizes" which would require more teachers, bigger schools, etc which would cost far more than it would be worth... having 10 less students in a class likely wouldn't benefit them enough for it to be worth paying all that extra money for more teachers and larger schools. plus with the costs of having smaller classes you can bet that the overall quality of each of those classes would go down (think of all the extra supplies that would be required.. especially in the lower grades)

Author:  poly [ Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:38 am ]
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private school tax return thingie

well I agree to everything you have said for that. Except Im waiting for somebody to say.... If these people can afford to send there children to private schools Im pretty sure they can afford there taxes.

Author:  Corybu [ Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:15 pm ]
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I think that if the government didnt spend its money where it isnt needed (why 3billion to corporations? 3 BILLION. Thats a hell of alot of money.) and invested it in our future (healthcare, education, extra curricular activities etc) then their money would be better spent.

And while im on the topic of money, dowa anyone else ever consider what the workd would be like without money?

Like what is it? it is something that everyone 'needs' to survive. Its just paper and metal. If money were abolished, the world would be a better place. If things were free to everyone, would the world collapse? I think not. I think that everything would change.

Theft would be nonexistant. Why steal something you can have for free?

poor people wouldnt be poor because the definition of being poor (in terms of wealth) is having no money. If money is nonexistant, they wouldnt be poor.

I think that society as a whole could function much better. the world could flourish. 3rd world countries could thrive and become great societies, people wouldnt die in the streets because they dont have money for healthcare, children wouldnt go hungry because their parents cant afford food. people wouldnt have to get stuck in dead end jobs because they were worried about the money, you could find your perfect job, and do it.

Think about your parents, if they had a bad day at work, they brought home misery and depression, right? but if they had a good day, the family was perfect that night. If you love your job, and enjoy it, chances are, you will go home happy, and your family life would be great.

not stressing over money and bills and everything would be amazing. you could just live your life, and not be bound by money, or lack thereof.

So, government spending is rediculus, because we dont even need money. but untill we can have this perfect world, we hae to make due with our lousy government making deisions that will forever change our lives.

Remember, they decide your fate. Imagine they did give 3 billion dollars to corporations, and not to hospitals. Now imagine that you get hit by a car, and are bleeding internally, and go to the hospital and say to you, "Im sorry, we dont have another bed for you." they dont have that bed because they cant afford the space, the power, the staff, or the medicine to give to the person in that bed. The government took your bed, and possibly your life. Still think they should give money to corporations instead of hospitals? I hope not.

Author:  AsianSensation [ Sat Oct 04, 2003 6:30 pm ]
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Corybu, those ideas about the no money in the world...that was what communism was based on, where everyone was equal, and no one is above another person.

It's all great and all, but you got to ask yourself, is it practical? Look how Russia turned out, and look at North Korea, China. These countries were all communist countries, but look at them now, apart from China, which is almost capitalist anyways (with all the companies and plants manufacturing stuff for oversea, they are like capitalist, China only keeps a communist front), the other countries aren't doing so well. North Korea is still having tension with South Korea.

Those ideas are perfectly fine, but they will never get carried out. Besides, money is a method of communication, it is now even incorporated into our morals, linking money to greed and whatnot. Getting rid of money is pointless, it will only bring unwanted turmoil. And the fact that the 3 billion spent into corporations, I say that was prudent, for a country cannot function well without a strong economical backbone. I mean, think about it, where else could those 3 million dollars go? If you put them into education, without a strong economy, how can you support education? All those materials, like furniture, lighting and even chalk, they are all industrial products. Then what about Healthcare? But then again, all the equpiment are industrial and the training are education-wise. So giveing corporate 3 billion is worth it.

Like PaddyLong said, think of it as an investment.

Author:  poly [ Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:36 pm ]
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And while im on the topic of money, dowa anyone else ever consider what the workd would be like without money?

Like what is it? it is something that everyone 'needs' to survive. Its just paper and metal. If money were abolished, the world would be a better place. If things were free to everyone, would the world collapse? I think not. I think that everything would change.

I agree with what AsianSensation said basically. But I would too like to quote on this quote. If there were no money and everything was free people would not work because in most minds we'd think "Hey why work is everything is free!?" well than nothing is being produced so wham bam, the world doesn't work

Author:  PaddyLong [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 1:20 pm ]
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that is exactly what I was going to say poly ... nobody would want to do the hard jobs or anything, because they would look at their neighbour who doesn't do anything and they have the same stuff. although it is something I have thought of in the past, "what if there was no money". but the world would just not work, nothing would get done, then there would be nothing to support life. but this also makes you think of back in the pioneering days when each family looked after their own. money was much less significant because people didn't have to buy as much, they looked after themselves. this also makes me think of some native type social structures, which from what little I know about them are based on respect for a ruling group of elders. I think that really it's possible to function without money on a small level (think of families... you don't like buy a snack from your parents), but I don't think it could ever work on a global level.

o yeah, for those still talking about the amount of money for health care, I said in my post that the PCs were going to be putting 28 BILLION - 1 HALF OF THE TOTAL BUDGET to health care. 3 billion invested to our economy is next to nothing compared to 28 billion.

Author:  Martin [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:47 pm ]
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Please stay on topic, if you want to continue on this debate, please make a new thread. Thanks.

Author:  Tony [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:47 pm ]
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it's still politics, so let them continue 8)

as for my opinion - money is a measurment of your contribution to the wellbeing of the world. The more goods/services you prodive, the more you can get from others. Money can be replaced by an universal credit system which is essensially the same thing, just different name.

Author:  AsianSensation [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:29 pm ]
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lol, it turned out I was discussing the point of money in the world with my friend, and she said how that even if money was abolished, people will still use other methods of trading values, so that even if money was not tecnically invented, people could still use chickens to count values.

From there, the conversation got out of control in which we attempted to list out the many possiblities and benefits of having chickens as our monetary system.

Author:  Dan [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:36 pm ]
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i think that a worald with out money or curencey could work BUT there whould need to be a way to rewared poleop who worked harder then others, but it whould not matter what they did as long it was help the worald. (ex. some one who worked hard at being a grabage man could get lots of stuff or what ever as long as he wroked harde at what he dose)

Author:  Martin [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:57 pm ]
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Life without money wouldn't work. People need to be able to get ahead of other people, and money presents itself as a way for one to show ones social status in the world. Without money, everyone would have to be treated as equal. And what about work? Who gets to be the garbage men, and who gets to be the computer programmers, and who decides that? And because the standard of living is so low in most places around the world, to balance things out we would end up having to lower our own standard of living to compensate. Also, what about where to live? I for one would prefer Hawaii over Windsor, and I'm sure that many people would have the same line of thought. Money presents itself as a way of control for people. Laziness would be another problem of a moneyless society...someone who did no work would get the same oppertunities. And without money, there could be nobody to judge who was holding up their share in the world.

A system like this does exist, at least in theory. It has caused numerous people to be oppressed and killed. It's called communism.

Author:  Dan [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:00 pm ]
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you know the idea of communism in it's self is not bad. just when you have communism with a poor govement or one the gets croped it gose realy wrong.

Author:  Martin [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:19 pm ]
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Communism in theory would be the best form of government, however it would require no laziness and no desire, which is impossible in the society so driven by success and sexuality.

Author:  Corybu [ Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:49 pm ]
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I agree that communism is an good idea, and if it could be properly exceuted, the communist country would be very desirable. In a democracy, there can be no equality. Rich people will have power, and poor people will suffer. With properly executed comminism, everyone could be equal.

And about the whole not working if money didnt exist: I think that people would realize that "Even though Im not getting paid, if I dont work, ____ wont get made/sold etc" people would realize that they still need to work to create these goods/services.

And about who gets to be garbageman and who gets to be programmer?
There are people who like to be garbage men, and there are people who like to be programmers. just like there are people who like to sell shoes, and people who like to clean septic tanks. There would be somone to fill every job. and I think that people would still do their jobs even if there was no money.

It may not work right now, but im sure if the general public had this option available to them, they would embrace it.

Author:  rizzix [ Mon Oct 06, 2003 12:19 am ]
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i'm a catholic. From my point of view of comunism, i don't think i like it at all. Hold on there don't get offended (who ever, why would you anyways), it's just my point of view. I find it an atheistic practice, and thats what i would call foolish. there are a lot of faults in communism, but i wouldn't like to debate on it. i hate debates in general, unless i actually have the time to do so.

Author:  Martin [ Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:08 am ]
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Rizzix has brought up an interesting point, in that in a communist society, there can be no god because that would represent a figure above everyone else, and therefor something to aspire to.

I personally think that a benevolent dictatorship would be a good form of government, so long as it remained relitively free of corruption. That way, it would be kinda like our government, only it would get way more stuff accomplished.

Author:  Amailer [ Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:17 pm ]
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If the goverment doesn't allow me to follow my religion i hate it Very Happy

Author:  krishon [ Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:38 pm ]
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if dalton did that, he get his ass whopped bad Very Happy there so many religious ppl in toronto u that once u ban religion ur doomed

Author:  Tony [ Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:39 pm ]
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a bit off topic here (still politics though)...

could someone send me a copy of party platform for Liberals? Or better yet a project on Ontario election Wink I've got it due in 2 days and I haven't started yet. I do have platforms for PCs and NDPs though.

Author:  BlAcK TuRtLe [ Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:54 pm ]
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Man the only thing i care about now is if the liberals freeze Car insurance rates seeing as in April i have to start paying.
Oh btw paddy's sig= great song(War Pigs:Black Sabbath)