Computer Science Canada Psychological Jujitsu

 Author: kmd-10 [ Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:23 pm ] Post subject: Psychological Jujitsu i would like to hold an AI programming competition for a game called psychological jujitsu. here is how the game works. there are two players. each player begins with 100 dollars. the object of the game is to obtain six "points". these are acquired by betting more of your money than your opponent on each turn. here is an example game: player 1: 100 dollars, 0 points player 2: 100 dollars, 0 points round 1 player 1 bets 11 dollars. player 2 bets 0 dollars. since player 1 bet more then player 2 did, player 1 gets a point. player 1: 89 dollars, 1 point player 2: 100 dollars, 0 points round 2 player 1 bets 4 dollars. player 2 bets 5 dollars. whether you get a point or not, you lose the amount of money you bet. player 2 gets a point. player 1: 85 dollars, 1 point player 2: 95 dollars, 1 point so much for "example game": i'm not gonna finish this, as i'm sure you know how it goes by now. if you see any possible problems hosting an AI competition using this game, post it here. if you think it could work, post that too. post whatever you want here, i suppose.

 Author: AsianSensation [ Mon Aug 04, 2003 9:58 pm ] Post subject: what happens if there is a tie? does the player with the most amout of points win? what about if both player bet the same amount?

 Author: kmd-10 [ Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:53 pm ] Post subject: sorry, i'll finish the rules: if both players bet the same amount, nobody gets a point. if both players run out of money somehow, the player with the most amount of points wins. if they have the same amount of points, the game is a tie then. of course, for any of these rules, if this ends up happening, we can change them. but i think it would be fun to see how this goes.

 Author: AsianSensation [ Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:02 pm ] Post subject: cool one more thing.... how are you going to host this thing, Im assuming most of us will write with different languages, since obviously we like to stay away from some language as far away as possible (cough, cough, Turing). Or do you think we should all write with one language? So people don't get advantages out of different languages? Post up on the specifications for the program.

 Author: kmd-10 [ Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:23 pm ] Post subject: you know, i actually thought about this. we all say we want to get as far away from turing as possible, but i thought it would be fun to make it so that nobody can use anything but turing. i thought this might repel some people, but at the same time, everyone here knows it (or should .. "SWAT"), right? plus, there would be no unfair language advantages. of course, we could just make it any language is allowed. but then, for as much equality as possible, a turing exclusive contest would be ideal. oh well, whatever suggestions you have, post em!

 Author: Amailer [ Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:28 pm ] Post subject: kmd-10 wrote:you know, i actually thought about this. we all say we want to get as far away from turing as possible, but i thought it would be fun to make it so that nobody can use anything but turing. i thought this might repel some people, but at the same time, everyone here knows it (or should .. "SWAT"), right? plus, there would be no unfair language advantages. of course, we could just make it any language is allowed. but then, for as much equality as possible, a turing exclusive contest would be ideal. oh well, whatever suggestions you have, post em! I disagree!

 Author: kmd-10 [ Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:32 pm ] Post subject: ok, i often think of things after i make posts. it's kind of an annoying trait to have. i basically have a couple ideas of how i would actually run this competition. one way i could do it, is make my own, uh, "battle-template" (leave me alone, it's a stupid term, i know) where i would have two procedures for each player's turn, and i would put each player's submission in there (which would be a function, with 4 parameters [my score, my points, their score, their points] and returns their next wager). but then, i would see everyone's top-secret-psychological-jujitsu-code! though i don't think that would matter, unless people don't want me seeing their masterpiece. though that would be the easier, i could also set it up in a way that would just use output to files, and if i were sent exe files, there would be no problem, and everyone's crazy psycho jujitsu AI will be kept private. everyone should just know that i'll do either one.

 Author: kmd-10 [ Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:33 pm ] Post subject: you disagree!?!? i don't understand -- you mean we should allow all languages? sure i'm up for that, if everyone wants.

 Author: PaddyLong [ Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:49 am ] Post subject: well, once you come up with your algorithm (even if you just have a train of thoughts in your head, that's still an algorithm ) it shouldn't be hard to write it for any language ...

 Author: kmd-10 [ Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:43 pm ] Post subject: yup, i essentially have the idea for it. i just want to know who would be interested, and if it would be worth me beginning the process.

 Author: RaPsCaLLioN [ Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:58 pm ] Post subject: If both players bet and tied would they lose the money that was bet?

 Author: kmd-10 [ Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:11 pm ] Post subject: yup.

 Author: RaPsCaLLioN [ Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:37 pm ] Post subject: Not a bad idea but creating an AI 'battle' for an odds-based game is kind of bland. Not really a good example of what some could do w/ AI.

 Author: kmd-10 [ Thu Aug 07, 2003 5:48 pm ] Post subject: it's not really odds. when you play it, there's a lot of, well, "psychology" as the title implies .. it's a lot of fun. when i play with friends, sometimes i'll bet a 14, and the other guy bets 0 .. huge waste of money. if you can make a psychologically analytic program, then you'll win. i don't know -- in my mind, it would be cool to see how people approached the game. maybe it'd work better if everyone had played the game first. oh well. if this doesn't work, i'm not stopping. i'm GOING to hold a contest.

 Author: RaPsCaLLioN [ Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:41 pm ] Post subject: I'll join if it's Turing.

 Author: bugzpodder [ Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:59 pm ] Post subject: okay, if you want to host this challenge, then you need to step up an engine first. Mannual control just arent fun. basically there are two choices. any language that supports stdin/stdout (C++, java, C, Pascal, but NOT TURING). write an engine that just takes from stdin and some function calls would do the job. 2. Pure Turing you can refer to my Snakes AI engine to see how to implement it. one problem: you must mannual do the coding if you want to switch AI (ie copy and paste) and you can see, the interests arent that high for my Snakes AI challenge. i think only me and Catalyst made AI.

 Author: PaddyLong [ Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:23 pm ] Post subject: I made an AI for your Snake ... just didn't post it, was waiting for the announcement for the contest to go lol

 Author: kmd-10 [ Thu Aug 07, 2003 9:19 pm ] Post subject: i think i can do it using just turing. the only way i wouldn't, is if you guys all insisted i didn't. part of me wants this to be a turing-exclusive contest, just because it would seem to be even to me, and this is essentially a turing board. but again, if you insist, i'll use something else. also .. i wasn't sure i wanted to start on the engine if i didn't have enough interest. but you know what? i think i'm gonna start it now anyway. why not, i don't have much else to do ..

 Author: bugzpodder [ Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:37 pm ] Post subject: so wheres the engine? almost done?

 Author: kmd-10 [ Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:28 pm ] Post subject: oh .. it's been done for a while. i just didn't think there was enough interest. nonetheless, if you want to make a function (whatever language you want i suppose) taking an four integers as input: your money, your points, the opponent's money, and the opponent's points, and returns the wager, then you can do so .. we'll see if anyone else does. if you want, you can request any other information. like previous bets or something. if you want. just do it if you're bored i suppose, as it doesn't look like it's flying.

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