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	<title>Comments on: Ruby &#8211; best introductory programming language</title>
	<atom:link href="http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/</link>
	<description>Programming, Education, Computer Science</description>
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		<title>By: first_language [strchr.com]</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-2/#comment-113047</link>
		<dc:creator>first_language [strchr.com]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-113047</guid>
		<description>[...] Ruby – best introductory programming language by Tony Targonski. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ruby – best introductory programming language by Tony Targonski. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gadgets</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-2/#comment-108407</link>
		<dc:creator>Gadgets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-108407</guid>
		<description>I never really caught on to ruby. PHP just seems so much easier - why switch?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never really caught on to ruby. PHP just seems so much easier &#8211; why switch?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Minutillo</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-2/#comment-108240</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Minutillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-108240</guid>
		<description>@Dave, Tony - Drag, drop, double-click can lead to some difficult to understand code. Try out Shoes by why the lucky stiff (don&#039;t ask) and while you&#039;re there have a look at the Hackety Hack idea. It&#039;s a really cool idea and philosophy. _why wants to build an IDE (sort of) which teaches kids how to program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dave, Tony &#8211; Drag, drop, double-click can lead to some difficult to understand code. Try out Shoes by why the lucky stiff (don&#8217;t ask) and while you&#8217;re there have a look at the Hackety Hack idea. It&#8217;s a really cool idea and philosophy. _why wants to build an IDE (sort of) which teaches kids how to program.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-2/#comment-108230</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-108230</guid>
		<description>@Dave -- if you haven&#039;t seen Ruby, then think Python.

Personally, I would disagree about VB. You are right that younger students are interested in getting something to the screen quickly, but graphical tools for UI layout should not be it. I&#039;ve been to a high school class using VB, and a lot of students would focus just on the layout of their GUI elements. Then they wouldn&#039;t know what code to put behind which of their many elements available.

So if the visual-feedback type of approach is called for, look into easily usable graphics libraries, not GUI design tools. Maybe something like Processing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dave &#8212; if you haven&#8217;t seen Ruby, then think Python.</p>
<p>Personally, I would disagree about VB. You are right that younger students are interested in getting something to the screen quickly, but graphical tools for UI layout should not be it. I&#8217;ve been to a high school class using VB, and a lot of students would focus just on the layout of their GUI elements. Then they wouldn&#8217;t know what code to put behind which of their many elements available.</p>
<p>So if the visual-feedback type of approach is called for, look into easily usable graphics libraries, not GUI design tools. Maybe something like Processing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-1/#comment-108224</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-108224</guid>
		<description>So! I started my programming experience when I was 14. The first language I started learning was C I was learning it online, so I didn&#039;t have a teacher or anything. And I have to say that was a very nice starting language, for me. Sometimes it got hard to stay working with it though, being young and not having someone there to make sure I was doing what I needed to be doing, but I often countered that by telling myself &quot;I wonder what I can learn today...&quot; But I&#039;d have to say that it wasn&#039;t THAT difficult to comprehend.

After C, I started to learn a little bit of python, learned the *very* basics of it, then went to Assembly. After learning about that, everything that I had learned before had made much more sense.

Next language was Pascal. It was somewhat similar to C, but there were some differences...

Then XHTML and CSS. Those were both a very nice break, considering they&#039;re pretty simple (to a degree.) Not exactly software development, but they&#039;re languages...

Now I&#039;m currently working with VB.NET and C#. VB can get veryyyyy messy, but it could be a good starter language for youngsters just because there is that visual sense to it. I would think that in a younger age group, just knowing &quot;Ooo, I get to move a button right here!&quot; would distract their mind from the actual code to be written. Not distracted enough that they wouldn&#039;t learn what the code meant, how it worked, or the procrastination aspect, but distracted enough that it would keep them motivated to want to make that button actually do something.

And just FYI, I&#039;m still in high school. So with some determination and effort, I&#039;m positive kids can learn AT LEAST one language and understand it enough to write good, efficient code.

So my vote? VB.NET or C.

Oh, and I haven&#039;t tried Ruby yet, so maybe my opinion in this article is void? Kinda like saying hamburgers are better than tacos, but have never had a taco in your life (which, btw isn&#039;t true, but that&#039;s beside the point at hand.)

But that&#039;s just my opinion, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So! I started my programming experience when I was 14. The first language I started learning was C I was learning it online, so I didn&#8217;t have a teacher or anything. And I have to say that was a very nice starting language, for me. Sometimes it got hard to stay working with it though, being young and not having someone there to make sure I was doing what I needed to be doing, but I often countered that by telling myself &#8220;I wonder what I can learn today&#8230;&#8221; But I&#8217;d have to say that it wasn&#8217;t THAT difficult to comprehend.</p>
<p>After C, I started to learn a little bit of python, learned the *very* basics of it, then went to Assembly. After learning about that, everything that I had learned before had made much more sense.</p>
<p>Next language was Pascal. It was somewhat similar to C, but there were some differences&#8230;</p>
<p>Then XHTML and CSS. Those were both a very nice break, considering they&#8217;re pretty simple (to a degree.) Not exactly software development, but they&#8217;re languages&#8230;</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m currently working with VB.NET and C#. VB can get veryyyyy messy, but it could be a good starter language for youngsters just because there is that visual sense to it. I would think that in a younger age group, just knowing &#8220;Ooo, I get to move a button right here!&#8221; would distract their mind from the actual code to be written. Not distracted enough that they wouldn&#8217;t learn what the code meant, how it worked, or the procrastination aspect, but distracted enough that it would keep them motivated to want to make that button actually do something.</p>
<p>And just FYI, I&#8217;m still in high school. So with some determination and effort, I&#8217;m positive kids can learn AT LEAST one language and understand it enough to write good, efficient code.</p>
<p>So my vote? VB.NET or C.</p>
<p>Oh, and I haven&#8217;t tried Ruby yet, so maybe my opinion in this article is void? Kinda like saying hamburgers are better than tacos, but have never had a taco in your life (which, btw isn&#8217;t true, but that&#8217;s beside the point at hand.)</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just my opinion, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: SEO Web Tips</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-1/#comment-104776</link>
		<dc:creator>SEO Web Tips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 20:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-104776</guid>
		<description>Ruby has always been a very interesting and exciting language for me. The only problem is that I never find a time to look into it further. Usually I go to their site, read about it for a while but never really get to the point of trying it... But I&#039;m sure I will one day. But for now, it&#039;s C/C  , PHP/MySQL and CSS/XHTML/XML for me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruby has always been a very interesting and exciting language for me. The only problem is that I never find a time to look into it further. Usually I go to their site, read about it for a while but never really get to the point of trying it&#8230; But I&#8217;m sure I will one day. But for now, it&#8217;s C/C  , PHP/MySQL and CSS/XHTML/XML for me&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: blu3man</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-1/#comment-103700</link>
		<dc:creator>blu3man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-103700</guid>
		<description>It would be a hell lot better then VB which is what is getting taught in High school software design at the moment. VB teaches horrible programming practices and is generally messy.

Some schools even stick with basic and qbasic.

I heard some schools are doing some python which is nice because it is a quite handy language to create some automotive scripts with.

I am yet to jump aboard this Ruby bandwagon but im leaning closer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be a hell lot better then VB which is what is getting taught in High school software design at the moment. VB teaches horrible programming practices and is generally messy.</p>
<p>Some schools even stick with basic and qbasic.</p>
<p>I heard some schools are doing some python which is nice because it is a quite handy language to create some automotive scripts with.</p>
<p>I am yet to jump aboard this Ruby bandwagon but im leaning closer.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Minutillo</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-1/#comment-103534</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Minutillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 03:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-103534</guid>
		<description>7) Static Typing at runtime but with strong Type Inference

I mean it. Look at Boo. It might make the Chicken Nuggets guy happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>7) Static Typing at runtime but with strong Type Inference</p>
<p>I mean it. Look at Boo. It might make the Chicken Nuggets guy happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Minutillo</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-1/#comment-103533</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Minutillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 03:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-103533</guid>
		<description>A year and this post still generates comments! I think Tony should open a social networking site around it :p

Seriously though, seeing new comments here has made me consider that &lt;a href=&quot;http://boo.codehaus.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Boo&lt;/a&gt; would also be an excellent university-level CS language. Boo is a Open Source .NET language based on Python. I have been playing with Boo a lot lately and here&#039;s why I think I would teach it if I were running a class:

1) The Ruby HelloWorld being object oriented trick that I keep harping on about holds true for Boo as well as for Ruby
2) Boo has an interpreted environment (interactive and batch) as well as a compilation system
3) Boo is open-source and free (like Ruby) with SharpDevelop or MonoDevelop as free Open Source IDEs as well.
4) Boo has a flexible compiler system (we want to teach compiler theory eventually right?)
5) Boo is built on .NET so library knowledge won&#039;t be lost when students decide to change language. This is especially great with F# coming on strong (want to teach functional programming too right).
6) Boo will work in Linux and Mac (on Mono) and Windows systems on .NET. 

It&#039;s all very Ruby-esque but I really like the flexible compiler (you can create a class that acts as a new keyword in the project you are currently compiling :o ). Boo FTW!

If you&#039;re tired of people evangelizing Ruby at you all the time but still want to try something different then I can heartily recommend Boo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A year and this post still generates comments! I think Tony should open a social networking site around it :p</p>
<p>Seriously though, seeing new comments here has made me consider that <a href="http://boo.codehaus.org" rel="nofollow">Boo</a> would also be an excellent university-level CS language. Boo is a Open Source .NET language based on Python. I have been playing with Boo a lot lately and here&#8217;s why I think I would teach it if I were running a class:</p>
<p>1) The Ruby HelloWorld being object oriented trick that I keep harping on about holds true for Boo as well as for Ruby<br />
2) Boo has an interpreted environment (interactive and batch) as well as a compilation system<br />
3) Boo is open-source and free (like Ruby) with SharpDevelop or MonoDevelop as free Open Source IDEs as well.<br />
4) Boo has a flexible compiler system (we want to teach compiler theory eventually right?)<br />
5) Boo is built on .NET so library knowledge won&#8217;t be lost when students decide to change language. This is especially great with F# coming on strong (want to teach functional programming too right).<br />
6) Boo will work in Linux and Mac (on Mono) and Windows systems on .NET. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s all very Ruby-esque but I really like the flexible compiler (you can create a class that acts as a new keyword in the project you are currently compiling <img src='http://compsci.ca/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' />  ). Boo FTW!</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re tired of people evangelizing Ruby at you all the time but still want to try something different then I can heartily recommend Boo</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/comment-page-1/#comment-103530</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 00:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compsci.ca/blog/ruby-best-introductory-programming-language/#comment-103530</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve already addressed this in another comment above, but given that Python&#039;s offering is &lt;em&gt;&quot;equally&quot;&lt;/em&gt; as good, then &lt;em&gt;why not&lt;/em&gt; use Ruby?

I don&#039;t think that Assembly should be a choice for exploring computer science concepts, but you are completely right that it shouldn&#039;t be about syntax either. That&#039;s why it&#039;s really exciting to see Universities &lt;a href=&quot;http://compsci.ca/blog/computer-science-at-waterloo-the-new-scheme-of-things/&quot; title=&quot;computer science at waterloo: the new scheme of things&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;switching from Java to Scheme&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve already addressed this in another comment above, but given that Python&#8217;s offering is <em>&#8220;equally&#8221;</em> as good, then <em>why not</em> use Ruby?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that Assembly should be a choice for exploring computer science concepts, but you are completely right that it shouldn&#8217;t be about syntax either. That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s really exciting to see Universities <a href="http://compsci.ca/blog/computer-science-at-waterloo-the-new-scheme-of-things/" title="computer science at waterloo: the new scheme of things" rel="nofollow">switching from Java to Scheme</a>.</p>
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