Comments on: Learning Before Learning (or getting ahead of school curriculum) http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/ Programming, Education, Computer Science Wed, 30 Sep 2020 08:31:44 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Joe Lewis http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108452 Joe Lewis Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:07:47 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108452 I've been interested in this topic for years, both before I read psychology and social anthropology at University and afterwards. My Grandfather was a very bright man but like many in his generation, left school at 14 or so. During his career in business, he learned about Sanskrit, Shakespeare, Kant and had an fascination with language and reason that left a great impression on me. I've always believed in learning for its own sake, and most of my education reflects this. When I went to University, i wanted to be a psychologist, so the course was obviously right for me. I think I would have studied psychology regardless however, since I'm passionate about understanding the human (and my own) condition. The SEO company I work for is run by a friend from University and both of us now focus on pragmatic learning - things that will one day make us more money. One day, when I've earned enough, I'll use the time the money can represent to study things for the sake of it again. I’ve been interested in this topic for years, both before I read psychology and social anthropology at University and afterwards.

My Grandfather was a very bright man but like many in his generation, left school at 14 or so. During his career in business, he learned about Sanskrit, Shakespeare, Kant and had an fascination with language and reason that left a great impression on me.

I’ve always believed in learning for its own sake, and most of my education reflects this.

When I went to University, i wanted to be a psychologist, so the course was obviously right for me. I think I would have studied psychology regardless however, since I’m passionate about understanding the human (and my own) condition.

The SEO company I work for is run by a friend from University and both of us now focus on pragmatic learning – things that will one day make us more money.

One day, when I’ve earned enough, I’ll use the time the money can represent to study things for the sake of it again.

]]> By: Aziz http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108387 Aziz Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:15:45 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108387 "Any student motivated enough to spend their own time reading ahead is hardly likely to be inclined to skip classes" One would think so, but sometimes you get really lazy and would rather play some Counter-Strike. But that is the fault of slacker friends and slacker attitude, not the extra learning. “Any student motivated enough to spend their own time reading ahead is hardly likely to be inclined to skip classes”

One would think so, but sometimes you get really lazy and would rather play some Counter-Strike. But that is the fault of slacker friends and slacker attitude, not the extra learning.

]]> By: The Angry Walrus » A Response to ‘Learning Before Learning’ http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108375 The Angry Walrus » A Response to ‘Learning Before Learning’ Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:04:56 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108375 [...] recently came across a guest post on the CompSci.ca blog that discussed the merits of learning, or exposing yourself to material before it is studied in [...] [...] recently came across a guest post on the CompSci.ca blog that discussed the merits of learning, or exposing yourself to material before it is studied in [...]

]]> By: Tone http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108342 Tone Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:41:54 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108342 I too was bothered by the 'skipping classes caused by reading ahead' remark. Students should be encouraged to study at their own pace, and if that means they can read ahead then that is a good thing. It doesn't and shouldn't mean that they will be more inclined to skip classes. Any student motivated enough to spend their own time reading ahead is hardly likely to be inclined to skip classes, particularly if attendance in those classes resulted in consolidation of their learning. I too was bothered by the ’skipping classes caused by reading ahead’ remark. Students should be encouraged to study at their own pace, and if that means they can read ahead then that is a good thing. It doesn’t and shouldn’t mean that they will be more inclined to skip classes. Any student motivated enough to spend their own time reading ahead is hardly likely to be inclined to skip classes, particularly if attendance in those classes resulted in consolidation of their learning.

]]> By: Aziz http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108252 Aziz Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:59:45 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108252 You'd like me as one of your students, and I think I'd like you as a prof if you made your lessons interesting (and you teach Python, bonus). Karen added another perspective to my point. I had many teachers that just didn't provide enough content or new concepts for me to have a good classroom experience. It's not entirely their fault, though, they had to make sure the rest of the class was keeping up. I mostly blame the school curriculm and the other students, but I do think that the teacher's should've pressed a little harder from the beginning. You’d like me as one of your students, and I think I’d like you as a prof if you made your lessons interesting (and you teach Python, bonus).

Karen added another perspective to my point. I had many teachers that just didn’t provide enough content or new concepts for me to have a good classroom experience. It’s not entirely their fault, though, they had to make sure the rest of the class was keeping up. I mostly blame the school curriculm and the other students, but I do think that the teacher’s should’ve pressed a little harder from the beginning.

]]> By: Karen http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108248 Karen Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:59:12 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108248 I would personally rather have more students trying to get ahead on the material in any of my courses. It leads to more interesting discussions in the classroom, and I think students get more out of a lecture if they know something about the lecture content. My main reason for writing is that I was bothered by the comments regarding skipping classes, and the effect that "reading ahead" has on skipping classes. I think that it is my responsibility as a teacher to add value to the course material in my lectures. If students are skipping because they don't think it helps them learn the course material, then it is at least partially my failing as an instructor. Don't get me wrong. There are plenty of students who skip lectures who would really benefit from attending. There are lots of things that happen in lecture that will help you understand the instructor's emphasis, and even if that information doesn't help you get a higher mark, it will most likely save you time studying or doing assignments. I'm also realistic. I can't give a lecture that will appeal to all the different learning styles, backgrounds, and attention spans in the room, so I think there will always be some students that skip classes. My goal is to create lectures that are compelling enough to get students to come to class without any trickery (required attendance, pop quizzes, or the like). So, I say go for it. Learn whatever language or concepts you find interesting, and then use your courses to fill in the gaps and relearn parts you didn't quite get. And even when you are excelling in a course, go see your instructor when you have questions. It is always fun to talk with students who want to know more than what is in the course. Python definitely rocks! (That's why we teach it in our first-year courses at the University of Toronto.) :-) I would personally rather have more students trying to get ahead on the material in any of my courses. It leads to more interesting discussions in the classroom, and I think students get more out of a lecture if they know something about the lecture content.

My main reason for writing is that I was bothered by the comments regarding skipping classes, and the effect that “reading ahead” has on skipping classes.

I think that it is my responsibility as a teacher to add value to the course material in my lectures. If students are skipping because they don’t think it helps them learn the course material, then it is at least partially my failing as an instructor.

Don’t get me wrong. There are plenty of students who skip lectures who would really benefit from attending. There are lots of things that happen in lecture that will help you understand the instructor’s emphasis, and even if that information doesn’t help you get a higher mark, it will most likely save you time studying or doing assignments.

I’m also realistic. I can’t give a lecture that will appeal to all the different learning styles, backgrounds, and attention spans in the room, so I think there will always be some students that skip classes. My goal is to create lectures that are compelling enough to get students to come to class without any trickery (required attendance, pop quizzes, or the like).

So, I say go for it. Learn whatever language or concepts you find interesting, and then use your courses to fill in the gaps and relearn parts you didn’t quite get. And even when you are excelling in a course, go see your instructor when you have questions. It is always fun to talk with students who want to know more than what is in the course.

Python definitely rocks! (That’s why we teach it in our first-year courses at the University of Toronto.) :-)

]]> By: Aziz http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108232 Aziz Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:54:51 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108232 That wasn't my main point, though it is a good one. I don't think that there's any adverse effect to learning a language before you're supposed to be taught it in class - as long as you realise you might not already know it, and take the in-class lessons as seriously as your personal explorations. Wtd's idea is good though. If your beginning in computer programming, getting in touch with other languages helps define certain aspects of programming, and the specific features of a program. If you see how the same concept is implemented differently in separate languages, it can give you a better overall understanding. That wasn’t my main point, though it is a good one. I don’t think that there’s any adverse effect to learning a language before you’re supposed to be taught it in class – as long as you realise you might not already know it, and take the in-class lessons as seriously as your personal explorations.

Wtd’s idea is good though. If your beginning in computer programming, getting in touch with other languages helps define certain aspects of programming, and the specific features of a program. If you see how the same concept is implemented differently in separate languages, it can give you a better overall understanding.

]]> By: wtd http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108231 wtd Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:17:54 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108231 To distill out something i think you were hinting at here, Aziz, it may be helpful, if one is going to learn on their own, to dedicate that energy to learning a language their upcoming class(es) will not be using. The underlying concepts will be useful, but it will still be necessary to learn the specifics in class. To distill out something i think you were hinting at here, Aziz, it may be helpful, if one is going to learn on their own, to dedicate that energy to learning a language their upcoming class(es) will not be using.

The underlying concepts will be useful, but it will still be necessary to learn the specifics in class.

]]> By: jernst http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108089 jernst Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:45:18 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108089 In defense of learning yourself, if you end up with a really useless professor it may end up being extremely worthwhile to have learned some of the concepts yourself, or at least start to develop an understanding of some of them. Good article by the way, very interesting. In defense of learning yourself, if you end up with a really useless professor it may end up being extremely worthwhile to have learned some of the concepts yourself, or at least start to develop an understanding of some of them.

Good article by the way, very interesting.

]]> By: Aziz http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/comment-page-1/#comment-108088 Aziz Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:25:16 +0000 http://compsci.ca/blog/learning-before-learning/#comment-108088 I see what you're saying - and I'm the same way. Before I started my first year of college, when I got my books, I started going through the Visual Basic textbook, so I could get a little bit of a background. I'll admit - even with the text book they were telling us to use, the course didn't follow the same structure and didn't teach the same things. Had I relied solely on the book, sure, I would've known some Visual Basic, but I wouldn't have learned what the course wanted me to. Even if it's just to get better marks - the only reason most people want better marks is so the do better in the course. Usually, they chose the course, which means they have a reason for being in it. Ideally, one would learn just for the sake of learning, but preparing yourself for the course so you do better isn't, IMO, a bad thing. Of course, if you rely on your self-taught skills, you could be in trouble. Oh, Python rocks, rolls, flys and so much more. It's quiet amazing how quick one becomes obsessed with it, like I've been a Python junkie for years rather than a few months :) I see what you’re saying – and I’m the same way. Before I started my first year of college, when I got my books, I started going through the Visual Basic textbook, so I could get a little bit of a background. I’ll admit – even with the text book they were telling us to use, the course didn’t follow the same structure and didn’t teach the same things.

Had I relied solely on the book, sure, I would’ve known some Visual Basic, but I wouldn’t have learned what the course wanted me to. Even if it’s just to get better marks – the only reason most people want better marks is so the do better in the course. Usually, they chose the course, which means they have a reason for being in it. Ideally, one would learn just for the sake of learning, but preparing yourself for the course so you do better isn’t, IMO, a bad thing. Of course, if you rely on your self-taught skills, you could be in trouble.

Oh, Python rocks, rolls, flys and so much more. It’s quiet amazing how quick one becomes obsessed with it, like I’ve been a Python junkie for years rather than a few months :)

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